Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum

Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum - Business, Marketing, and Sales http://www.painttalk.com The business of contracting discussed here. Everything from starting up a new business to expanding a successful one. en Mon, 06 Sep 2010 22:47:09 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.painttalk.com/images/misc/rss.jpg Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum - Business, Marketing, and Sales http://www.painttalk.com How old were you? http://www.painttalk.com/f4/how-old-were-you-10394/ Fri, 03 Sep 2010 14:55:33 GMT I'm not sure if this would go in this section but I was just wondering how old you were and why you decided to go on your own. I am 20 years old and would like to eventually start my own business. I have introduced myself in the introduction section. I am also looking for advice and maybe you can tell me some things to avoid when starting out.
Thanks everyone! ]]> Business, Marketing, and Sales hockeypainter http://www.painttalk.com/f4/how-old-were-you-10394/ How do You Advertise your Business ? http://www.painttalk.com/f4/how-do-you-advertise-your-business-10393/ Fri, 03 Sep 2010 14:39:55 GMT I was curious as to how most painters advertise their business out there ? I use a lot of Direct Mail in addition to my web based advertising and a... I was curious as to how most painters advertise their business out there ? I use a lot of Direct Mail in addition to my web based advertising and a few local paper adds . How do you guys get the word out ? I'm posting a POLL , I'm sure I'll forget some options . You can vote for as many options that apply to your business , and the POLL is anonymous so nobody will know how you voted ! ;) ]]> Business, Marketing, and Sales Bobbo http://www.painttalk.com/f4/how-do-you-advertise-your-business-10393/ Coupons or Discounts , Will they increase business ? http://www.painttalk.com/f4/coupons-discounts-will-they-increase-business-10392/ Fri, 03 Sep 2010 14:26:14 GMT Do any of my fellow painters out there include a coupon along with their advertising ? And if so does it increase your business volume ? Image:... Do any of my fellow painters out there include a coupon along with their advertising ? And if so does it increase your business volume ?

]]> Business, Marketing, and Sales Bobbo http://www.painttalk.com/f4/coupons-discounts-will-they-increase-business-10392/ Customer retention marketing http://www.painttalk.com/f4/customer-retention-marketing-10381/ Thu, 02 Sep 2010 23:24:24 GMT Brian's workshop got me rethinking customer retention. What are some of the things you guys are doing to stay in the "radar" of past customers?

I know Scott has a yearly maintenance program, hopefully he will share how that works. I can imagine it would be a valuable service where there is exteriors to maintain.
But what about interiors? On our NC, I always send a letter after one year, but what about repaints?

What else to help get referrals? ]]> Business, Marketing, and Sales RCP http://www.painttalk.com/f4/customer-retention-marketing-10381/ Dropping yellow book listing http://www.painttalk.com/f4/dropping-yellow-book-listing-10377/ Thu, 02 Sep 2010 01:29:48 GMT I told my yellow book salesman I did not want to renew this year unless it was no more than $20/month. Too poor of lead quality. Too few calls to... I told my yellow book salesman I did not want to renew this year unless it was no more than $20/month. Too poor of lead quality. Too few calls to be worth while. I tried the 1/4 or whatever add last year plus the in column. I tried the larger in column add this year. Really not much worthwhile came from either one. This year was worse than last year. You can pick the yellow book leads out in the first 2 sentences usually.

Can't say the yellow pages seem any better.

Any of you drop both of these? ]]> Business, Marketing, and Sales DeanV http://www.painttalk.com/f4/dropping-yellow-book-listing-10377/ Back to school calls? http://www.painttalk.com/f4/back-school-calls-10376/ Thu, 02 Sep 2010 01:26:02 GMT It always seems like a rush of calls around this time of year. I think kids get back to school, parents assess the damages from the summer, get back... It always seems like a rush of calls around this time of year. I think kids get back to school, parents assess the damages from the summer, get back on routine, etc and those painting projects get on the front burner again.

Everyone else get a increase in calls this time of year? ]]> Business, Marketing, and Sales DeanV http://www.painttalk.com/f4/back-school-calls-10376/ Warning: Do not do business with Premier Maps http://www.painttalk.com/f4/warning-do-not-do-business-premier-maps-10342/ Mon, 30 Aug 2010 20:45:35 GMT I got a call earlier in the year from Premier Maps. They put your add on maps that they give out to new home buyers, real estate agents, etc. I... I got a call earlier in the year from Premier Maps. They put your add on maps that they give out to new home buyers, real estate agents, etc. I told them to send me a proof and I would see if I was interested. I refused to give them any money or order anything until I saw a copy of the product and if I could be listed in Kent County. Well, they did not send me a proof and went ahead and placed my add in the Muskegon County Map (not in service area for the most part and only do 1-2 jobs a year there tops). They sent me a box of maps, I called an told them I did not place an order and would not be paying for them. They sent an invoice 2 times, I called and told them I did not order the product, they said they would cancel the invoice. Now, I got a final notice and the old "turning it over to collections" threat. I called again and they said they would get back to me. So far no return call (after about 1 week). Stay away if they call you. Do not give any company info. Do not express interest. Thank goodness I did not give them card info. up front like they wanted. They are located in TX and apparently go under a few different names. Sometimes I think being listed in the phone book and having a website serves only to attract scum like this. ]]> Business, Marketing, and Sales DeanV http://www.painttalk.com/f4/warning-do-not-do-business-premier-maps-10342/ Proposal Writing Article http://www.painttalk.com/f4/proposal-writing-article-10338/ Mon, 30 Aug 2010 03:05:38 GMT *Ran across this and liked some of the ideas. Hope you find something you like:* Image:... Ran across this and liked some of the ideas. Hope you find something you like:

How to Construct Proposals That Sell
Aug 27, 2010 2:27 PM EDT

Q: While the proposals I provide for my prospects do a good job at spelling out the details of the project and pricing, I'd like to present a proposal that's more effective at selling my solution. Is there a way to leverage my proposal as an actual selling tool?
A: You're in luck!
Proposals can make or break a sales deal; a well-written proposal can help cinch the deal. The proposal should absolutely be used as a selling tool. It is your opportunity to demonstrate that you truly understand your prospect's needs, you have listened intently and that you will provide a compelling solution.
Notice I used the word "compelling." Not only do you want your proposal to give your prospect details of the solution and pricing information, it is also your final chance before asking for the order to make a lasting impression on your prospect. So you want to be sure it's a good one.
There are 10 key elements to writing a proposal that will help you make a favorable final impression before closing the deal--and will help improve your close ratio as well.

The header testimonial. This is a quote from an existing client who has used your products and services the same way you are now proposing that your prospect use them. The quote should include a statement that speaks to the results your solution has provided, as well as statistics to back it up. The quote should not be more than one or two sentences. The function of the header testimonial is to grab the attention of your prospect so he will read the rest of your proposal, and not just skip to the pricing/investment section, like many prospects tend to do.
The opening statement. The opening statement should include a sincere thank-you to your prospect for the opportunity to present your proposal, as well as an enthusiastic statement from you regarding your interest in providing a solution that will meet the prospect's needs.
The scope of work statement. This is a one- or two-sentence description of your understanding of the prospect's needs, and the solution you are proposing to address those needs.
The scope of work detailed description is where you provide details of the project--including the solution itself--and any relevant scheduling details, including time frames and deadlines. This portion of the proposal also speaks to items the prospect will be responsible for, if any, to make the project a success. It is important to set expectations early so your prospect knows exactly what he is agreeing to upfront, before you close the deal.
The project deliverables description. It should include the tangible items you will deliver as a part of your solution. The best way to present this portion of the proposal is to use bullet points to present clear, concise action items associated with your solution.
The investment details. This is where you address the pricing details of your solution. Notice it is called the investment details section, not the pricing details section. This is done purposefully because the word "investment" indicates something of value in exchange for the money spent, or invested, in your solution. Stay away from words like "price" and "cost" as they suggest only that money will be spent, as opposed to an exchange of value.

Whether you choose to itemize your proposal is a personal choice. One nice aspect of an itemized proposal is that if the client balks at the total investment, you can ask the prospect which items to remove from the proposal in order to lower the price. In other words, you can come down on the price, but only with the understanding that the solution will be different than what you originally proposed.

If you're going to give a little, your prospect needs to give a little, too. Too often we drop the price of our solution in order to win the business. However, this can create the perception that you don't see the value in your own solution, as well as send a message to your prospect that you didn't start with your best price. Coming down on your price also sets a precedent, and your clients may come to expect it after you do it once.
The return on investment statement. This is a section many salespeople miss. Maybe it's assumed the prospect will immediately see the return on her investment, without you explaining it, but that is unlikely. If you can, spell it out so the prospect has a clear understanding of how your solution will either save her money, make her money or save her time. If you can show a return on investment for your solution that makes sense, you will win the deal the majority of the time.
The call-to-action statement. This is where you tell your prospect exactly what will happen next, such as, "I will contact you next Tuesday to review the proposal in detail and answer any questions you may have."

An even better approach is to have a commitment from your prospect before you submit the proposal for review. In other words, before you prepare the proposal, ask your prospect for a specific date and time you can review the proposal together, rather than just send it to him to review on his own. This will prevent you from losing the sale because you had no follow-up commitment from the prospect.
The thank-you statement. It may seem obvious, but many people forget to thank their prospects for the opportunity. Just as important as the thank you is tying it to the results your solution will create for the prospect. Showing some enthusiasm for the project doesn't hurt, either.
The footer testimonial. This is your final chance to leave the prospect with a quote or testimonial from a client who has experienced a favorable outcome as a result of your solution.

From Fox Business. ]]> Business, Marketing, and Sales bikerboy http://www.painttalk.com/f4/proposal-writing-article-10338/ Managing cashflow w/ Employees http://www.painttalk.com/f4/managing-cashflow-w-employees-10332/ Sun, 29 Aug 2010 03:10:41 GMT Things have been busy over the past month and I'm booked 2 months out now..which is a rewarding and stressful feeling lol. So I'm getting close to the point where we're going to take the plunge and start hiring employees. My question is how much money should you have in the bank for each employee as a contingency?

I've been in situations early on where I was close to not being able to pay an employee on time because the job took to long or other reasons and I never want to go through that again.

So I'm thinking I want to have 6 weeks pay in the bank for each employee before I hire.

Also I'm thinking the first guy I hire I want to be experienced and not a complete newby that I'll have to spend all day telling what to do. He'll be a lead painter. then I want to hire a helper to work with him. So they'll function as an independant crew. ]]> Business, Marketing, and Sales SterlingPainting http://www.painttalk.com/f4/managing-cashflow-w-employees-10332/ Christian Blue Pages http://www.painttalk.com/f4/christian-blue-pages-10330/ Sun, 29 Aug 2010 00:38:37 GMT Have any of you ever advertised with the Christian Blue Pages? My kids go to a Lutheran school because my wife does not like our local public... Have any of you ever advertised with the Christian Blue Pages? My kids go to a Lutheran school because my wife does not like our local public schools. I picked up a copy at the church.

I was thinking of advertising with them, they are much cheaper than the yellow pages.

*please note that this is not a discussion about the yellow pages*

Anyway, they put you on the website if you take out a display ad, the display ads in the book are pretty cheap. You get a discount if you sign up for two years, but they want all of the money paid in the first six months. I don't like that part.

If you have advertised, was it worth it? ]]> Business, Marketing, and Sales One Coat Coverage http://www.painttalk.com/f4/christian-blue-pages-10330/ What happened to piece work? http://www.painttalk.com/f4/what-happened-piece-work-10319/ Fri, 27 Aug 2010 13:36:44 GMT What happened to paying professional painters by the piece? I can remember a time when I made 50k a year getting paid piece work. Wages were good and... What happened to paying professional painters by the piece? I can remember a time when I made 50k a year getting paid piece work. Wages were good and painters never took time off. Salesmen worked very hard to keep up with the production end of the painting industry and when painters were out of work so went the salesmen. Since contractors have become contractor/salesman piece has gone out the window and wages have dropped dramatically. Work is limited in many cases and in my area non existent in the winter months.
Two part question; How would piece work change your business and could you keep up with production? In other words could you as a contractor/salesman provide skilled professional painters with enough work to earn at least 50K per year?

]]> Business, Marketing, and Sales Whajado http://www.painttalk.com/f4/what-happened-piece-work-10319/ Sherwin Williams vs Benjamin Moore Canada http://www.painttalk.com/f4/sherwin-williams-vs-benjamin-moore-canada-10300/ Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:46:57 GMT Hi all, my name is Mark. I am currently setting up a small business and cannot decide between Sherwin Williams and Benjamin Moore. They are the most... Hi all, my name is Mark.

I am currently setting up a small business and cannot decide between Sherwin Williams and Benjamin Moore. They are the most accessible in my area so it is a showdown between the two. Not enough experience to make a choice between paint quality, I have had no problems with either. Dollar benefits lean towards Sherwin Williams. Any help/input would be much appreciated. You may be hearing a lot from me. :) ]]> Business, Marketing, and Sales painter162 http://www.painttalk.com/f4/sherwin-williams-vs-benjamin-moore-canada-10300/ Good short article on pricing it right. http://www.painttalk.com/f4/good-short-article-pricing-right-10298/ Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:12:55 GMT Thought you may enjoy this: From: Remodeling magazine (http://www.remodeling.hw.net/) August ... Thought you may enjoy this:

From: Remodeling magazine August 2010
Posted on: August 6, 2010
Price It Right

Basic estimating principles for breaking even on a job.

By: Les Cunningham

In today’s economy, most remodelers are reluctant to turn down a job. And homeowners, since they are likely using their own money, are more budget-conscious. In addition, they are now attempting to negotiate deals and are willing to play hardball with contractors.
However, remodelers need to make sure they are not losing money on the jobs that they accept. Here are a few estimating principles that will help you.

You must charge your actual labor costs, i.e., your labor costs plus the burdened labor costs that go with paying an employee, including city, state, and federal taxes.

You must include the actual cost of materials. This is based on your actual take-off, which has the specific materials you will use. Instead of using costs from a previous job, consider contacting your suppliers about the latest prices.

To include the actual costs of subcontractors, have subs submit written bids. Some remodelers estimate the subcontractor’s portion of the job or even prepare the bid for them. Use the subcontractor’s expertise on the bid.

You must include the actual costs of your overhead expenses. Remodelers who work out of their homes often forget to factor in utilities, phones, and replacement costs of the wear and tear on their property.

You may or may not charge a profit on top of these four items, but I would strongly suggest you do. However, in view of the current market, even if you do not include profit, you can be assured that you won’t lose money if you accurately estimate and include these four items.

If the deal doesn’t work for you, thank the homeowners for the opportunity, and walk away. Wait for the projects that will work for you in the time frame that you need.

—Les Cunningham is president of Business Networks, a peer-review organization for the remodeling and insurance restoration industries. les@businessnetworks.com. ]]> Business, Marketing, and Sales bikerboy http://www.painttalk.com/f4/good-short-article-pricing-right-10298/ Start Over or Keep Rolling? http://www.painttalk.com/f4/start-over-keep-rolling-10296/ Wed, 25 Aug 2010 15:02:01 GMT I have been in business for three years now. All in all everything is going good, but I feel I have made some mistakes. Starting out we were doing... I have been in business for three years now. All in all everything is going good, but I feel I have made some mistakes. Starting out we were doing painting and repairs, but any little thing that I could get my hands on I took, just to make a dollar. Work now includes landscaping, carpentry, flooring ect. ect. We are doing fine keeping busy but I don't feel that I can ever establish my company as a solid service provider doing anything and everything, being a "jack of all trades" type.

My gut is telling me to take a step back, Look at what we are doing to attract work and revamp it to attract painting jobs, because this is what we know and love. It would also make everything eaiser from hiring employees to not having so much equipment to maintain. I know that sales are going to drop for a little while and I may have to lay a few guys off until I can get established as a painting company. I feel that this is in the best intrest of my company.

I would like to get some thoughts from you guys. How would you handle this situation. Thanks! ]]> Business, Marketing, and Sales Josh.08 http://www.painttalk.com/f4/start-over-keep-rolling-10296/ asking for the sale http://www.painttalk.com/f4/asking-sale-10293/ Wed, 25 Aug 2010 10:38:56 GMT Ok how and when do you ask for the sale. I mean I want to know the exact wording on how you do it. thanks dave Ok how and when do you ask for the sale. I mean I want to know the exact wording on how you do it.

thanks
dave ]]> Business, Marketing, and Sales Dave Mac http://www.painttalk.com/f4/asking-sale-10293/