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Old 05-10-2017, 10:45 PM   #1
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Default Dry erase/Whiteboard paint.

Doing a bid in an office building do paint several walls with dry erase paint. There is about 1,700 square feet of wallspace to be painted with this.

They have already used Sherwin Dry Erase paint for previous walls, so they know the price. ($530. a gallon after taxes!!) Their products coverage says 200-400 SFPG. Im going low coverage, and bidding for nine gallons. This makes the material cost alone close to $5,000 for this product.

This is a big building, several stories, including residential floors, and I'm assuming they have a central air flow going everywhere. They CLAIM this is low voc, no isocyanates, low odor, yadda, yadda, yadda, but its still a two part epoxy. This is a LOT of footage for something with harshfumes. Should I spread it out timewise, to decrease the concentration of fumes? Is it not as bad as I think?

So, I talked with my PPG paint rep about their products. He told me that PPG owns the original company that made the dry erase paint, called 'ideapaint.' Their product cost $225 a QUART. Since they sell idea paint, he was not supposed to tell me about a product that is $200 a gallon, handles dry erase perfectly, and also happens to be the only paint the US military uses on their ship anchors, and is also low VOC, no isocyanate, high solids.Its called psx700. Its called polysiloxane, and Sherwin cant copy their formula yet. They arent allowed to advertise this paint as dry erase, due to the 'ideapaint' they sell. Ultimately, its up to the office owners, but my main concern is the odors, if anyone has used any of these products before.
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Old 05-10-2017, 10:54 PM   #2
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Not much odor with Sherwins waterbased version. Just did 14 metal doors today.

There are isocyanates though. The Part B bottle says "isocyanate coverter". The PDS says DO NOT SPRAY. I'm told it's cause the iso fumes can get in the ductwork and cause health issues idk.

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Old 05-11-2017, 08:28 PM   #3
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Ive used the Dry Erase Gallon kit from Sherwin Williams (2-part kit), I picked that up for $366.00 for a gallon kit.

This lady promised her kids dry erase walls and after she heard the price she says. "Well I told them they could have it". LOL One gallon was enough to do a 10x10 room.

It was toxic, probably the same level of floor finishes..
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Old 05-11-2017, 10:29 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Stretch67 View Post
Not much odor with Sherwins waterbased version. Just did 14 metal doors today.

There are isocyanates though. The Part B bottle says "isocyanate coverter". The PDS says DO NOT SPRAY. I'm told it's cause the iso fumes can get in the ductwork and cause health issues idk.

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Why are you putting dry erase on metal doors, just out of curiosity?
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Old 05-11-2017, 10:34 PM   #5
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Also, yup. I looked at Sherwins MSDS for the hardener and it is hot for isocyanates. The Ideapaint dry-erase does not, but they are more expensive, unless you have a kick ass paint rep like me...

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Old 05-11-2017, 10:36 PM   #6
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Why are you putting dry erase on metal doors, just out of curiosity?
So you can use markers on them

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Old 05-11-2017, 10:46 PM   #7
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Have not used it but anytime you mix an A with a B it will stink, at least in the paint and coatings world.
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Old 05-11-2017, 11:01 PM   #8
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So you can use markers on them

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I'm assuming that

Is it a preschool or something? Im just wondering what environment people would use markers on doors? Also, what kind of square foot coverage were you getting from it? The data sheet says 200-400 FPG, which for my bid is a two thousand dollar difference.

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Old 05-12-2017, 08:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodco View Post
So, I talked with my PPG paint rep about their products. He told me that PPG owns the original company that made the dry erase paint, called 'ideapaint.' Their product cost $225 a QUART. Since they sell idea paint, he was not supposed to tell me about a product that is $200 a gallon, handles dry erase perfectly, and also happens to be the only paint the US military uses on their ship anchors, and is also low VOC, no isocyanate, high solids.Its called psx700. Its called polysiloxane, and Sherwin cant copy their formula yet. They arent allowed to advertise this paint as dry erase, due to the 'ideapaint' they sell. Ultimately, its up to the office owners, but my main concern is the odors, if anyone has used any of these products before.
PSX 700 is great stuff. PPG sold the Dry erase License to IDEA Paint so they cant compete against the License holders. We typically use a Siloxane made by PCI that did the same thing to their Siloxane (Licensed to "EeZeClean") Remind the Owner that they CANNOT write on the board for 7 days after install.

All of it has solvents and they all smell.

Lots of "Trendy" new tech firms, offices, etc. are using it all over. "My whole office is a whiteboard! Even the Door!" The SW Product is easier to work with and easier to get a hold of. (Plus you'll have better support if something goes wrong - PPG would say: "We never said you could use it for a whiteboard!")

Typically our process (for walls) is:
Patch Walls, Apply 1 coat of Surfacer (PPG Speedhide Maxbuild surfacer/etc), Prime with something like Bullseye 123 (To get a White surface to start with), 1-2 coats of finish.

Usually Done after 5pm, and over a weekend to give the smell time to dissipate.

We have been doing a lot of this for the past 5 years. Usually any problems are because the applicator needed more experience.
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Old 05-13-2017, 01:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentdalimp View Post
PSX 700 is great stuff. PPG sold the Dry erase License to IDEA Paint so they cant compete against the License holders. We typically use a Siloxane made by PCI that did the same thing to their Siloxane (Licensed to "EeZeClean") Remind the Owner that they CANNOT write on the board for 7 days after install.

All of it has solvents and they all smell.

Lots of "Trendy" new tech firms, offices, etc. are using it all over. "My whole office is a whiteboard! Even the Door!" The SW Product is easier to work with and easier to get a hold of. (Plus you'll have better support if something goes wrong - PPG would say: "We never said you could use it for a whiteboard!")

Typically our process (for walls) is:
Patch Walls, Apply 1 coat of Surfacer (PPG Speedhide Maxbuild surfacer/etc), Prime with something like Bullseye 123 (To get a White surface to start with), 1-2 coats of finish.

Usually Done after 5pm, and over a weekend to give the smell time to dissipate.

We have been doing a lot of this for the past 5 years. Usually any problems are because the applicator needed more experience.
Thanks for the info. Im gonna disagree that sherwin would have better customer support though. My PPG guy is awesome, and Sherwin guys are absolutely worthless. They always find some crap to point the blame at no matter what the product is. Also, like I said, if I decide agains the psx 700,
PPG will sell me the actual Ideapaint for cheaper than Slick Willy will, which will have their gaurantee, AND it doesnt have isocyanates.

Edit: What kind of 'problems' have you experienced because of your inexperienced guys?

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Old 05-13-2017, 12:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Thanks for the info. Im gonna disagree that sherwin would have better customer support though. My PPG guy is awesome, and Sherwin guys are absolutely worthless. They always find some crap to point the blame at no matter what the product is. Also, like I said, if I decide agains the psx 700,
PPG will sell me the actual Ideapaint for cheaper than Slick Willy will, which will have their gaurantee, AND it doesnt have isocyanates.

Edit: What kind of 'problems' have you experienced because of your inexperienced guys?
PPG is Great. But they are not going to be able to do much if you use paint for what it's not intended for. SW can't use that logic if you are using Whiteboard paint for a whiteboard and something goes wrong.

Biggest issues we've had are streaks in the finish. Guys going back and trying to re-roll the materials after it has started to setup. (It's solvent based, it kicks pretty fast)

A buddy from a different company was just asking if we've ever had micro bubbles in the finish, Apparently they just applied some FUZE Dry Erase Coating and got a bunch of micro bubbles. The manufacturer (MDC) is telling them its the applicators fault. (They have installed thousands of square feet of various dry erase coatings with no problems, but now its their fault!) So stay away from FUZE if you can.

Primer was Bullseye 1-2-3 given enough time to dry and they are now two applications of FUZE days apart from each other with micro bubbles forming in each application. So yeah, you can get problems. The guy doing the install didn't cut corner's so we are both lost as to what is going on!!!
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Old 05-13-2017, 09:37 PM   #12
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Okay, good to know. What kind of coverage were you getting?


Anyway, here is my plan: Its an occupied office, with painted walls, so I was gonna paint them with a white eggshell, and apply a single coat of the dry erase, which is basically what the directions say. I was thinking about using a 3/8ths 18 inch roller and just making damn sure I roll it right, and holiday free. I think the floors above the office may have residential units, and Im scared the AC is going to circulate fumes through the whole building, so I may break it into several sessions (days) doing a kit worth of walls at a time, and coming back the next weekend for more. The office itself has a LOT of open space, so it might not be that bad, but I need to prepare for the worst.

What do you think about that plan?

I suppose I could make sure any AC is shut down altogether for the weekend, to keep the fumes contained.... duh.
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Old 05-15-2017, 10:02 AM   #13
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Okay, good to know. What kind of coverage were you getting?


Anyway, here is my plan: Its an occupied office, with painted walls, so I was gonna paint them with a white eggshell, and apply a single coat of the dry erase, which is basically what the directions say. I was thinking about using a 3/8ths 18 inch roller and just making damn sure I roll it right, and holiday free. I think the floors above the office may have residential units, and Im scared the AC is going to circulate fumes through the whole building, so I may break it into several sessions (days) doing a kit worth of walls at a time, and coming back the next weekend for more. The office itself has a LOT of open space, so it might not be that bad, but I need to prepare for the worst.

What do you think about that plan?

I suppose I could make sure any AC is shut down altogether for the weekend, to keep the fumes contained.... duh.
The Stuff Smells bad, but I don;t believe it will carry enough to affect anybody outside of the immediate office. (Even if the AC Stays on.) Maybe bring in a couple fans to circulate and dilute some of the fumes.

Coverage is between 200-300 Sq' Nothing out of the ordinary. Once it starts to setup coverage goes down, so don't mix up more than you can use at a time.

I suggest just using a white primer like Bullseye 123 that dries fast and is ok to be used under Epoxy's / Solvents.

Everything else sounds good!
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Old 05-15-2017, 06:55 PM   #14
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Right on. Thanks for the info!
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Old 05-16-2017, 04:20 PM   #15
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It was actually an accordion door that separates a conference room in a recent project. It's made of HMD's though. Each one 3x10 I think. Took 1.5 gallons of SW waterbased whiteboard stuff. Three undercoats tho to cover the blue/gray primer.

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