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Old 06-12-2011, 10:38 AM   #1
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Default Arborcoat Peeling?

I was just talking with a Pro who said he would not, given a choice, use Benjamin Moore Arborcoat for Semi-transparent stain:

http://www.benjaminmoore.com/arborcoat

as he had run into a problem last summer, went to get more for a job, and the dealer was out, something was said about peeling, wasn't clear when it would be replaced. I went to the dealer, and couldn't get him to say one way or the other really, just that it was a new formulation this year.

The original guy said he was going to use Cabots this summer, but I see from the posts in this forum, various problems there. I guess everyone is struggling with VOCs and new formulations, to some degree. Still, he indicated that he'd use Benjamin Moore for anything else, his card is still up at the dealer so it's not a falling out there (and the dealer also sells Cabots, Sickens), Dealer recommends Arborcoat (although he did say in semi-transparent, Sickens was also good). I've always had good experience with Benjamin Moore, so I was wondering if there really was a peeling problem or if this was all a misunderstanding.
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Old 06-12-2011, 12:17 PM   #2
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I've completed 7 or 8 Arborcoat decks since last October. Most were semi trans, or transparent, of course with the clear coat top coat. When I attended the BM exterior stain seminar this spring it was mentioned that its never a good idea to put a 2 coat system on a low deck with poor ventilation or some peeling could occur.

My first thought is that the first Arborcoat deck I did was exactly that. It's about 10 inches off the ground and after pressure washing the deck and the house the soil was saturated. I did check moisture content and waited until it was below 15%.

Long story short, I last checked on it about 3 weeks ago and it still looks like new.
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Old 06-12-2011, 01:12 PM   #3
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I have been using a lot of this product and havent had any problems.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:41 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doctors11 View Post
I've completed 7 or 8 Arborcoat decks since last October. Most were semi trans, or transparent, of course with the clear coat top coat. When I attended the BM exterior stain seminar this spring it was mentioned that its never a good idea to put a 2 coat system on a low deck with poor ventilation or some peeling could occur.

My first thought is that the first Arborcoat deck I did was exactly that. It's about 10 inches off the ground and after pressure washing the deck and the house the soil was saturated. I did check moisture content and waited until it was below 15%.

Long story short, I last checked on it about 3 weeks ago and it still looks like new.
Interesting.

Well, the humidity runs a bit high here (mid-Hudson valley, New York), maybe that was a factor. It's gotten better here this summer, but in the Spring, there were a lot of rain days. My recollection is there was also a lot rain of last summer. VOC laws maybe a bit more stringent, too. Although, if Benjamin Moore held things off the market for a bit, to reformulate, I would have thought that would have registered, somewhat widely.

Any thoughts on the clear coat and the subsequent staining jobs, penetration wise?
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Old 06-12-2011, 07:16 PM   #5
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The idea of the clear coat is that BM calls it a "sacrificial coat". Meaning it takes the brunt of the weathering, UV damage and scuffing while protecting the stain. We were told to return to those decks a year later for a cleaning. At that time look to see if the water is still beading, and when dry, is there still a satin sheen to the deck.

The object is to recoat the clear before the colored stain starts to show any wear. We were told to expect 1 to 2 years for redoing the clear. They also said if there is visible wearing of the colored stain you can lightly touch up/blend in some new stain at that time, followed by the clear.

Hope that helps.

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Old 08-16-2011, 09:08 AM   #6
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Default Deck peeling after winter

I painted my deck with arborcoat in July of 2010 (when the product first came out). I was careful to wait a year for the deck to weather (pressure treated), then scrubbed the deck with a deck cleaner, throughly rinsed and waited a few days in full sun for it to dry out. The two coat system lasted well until it was sitting under snow for the winter - at which point it started peeling off - about 30% peeled in total. I contacted Benjamin Moore who asked me to send in some samples of the peeling which I did. I heard back about three months later from benjamin moore head office who said they had the "results" of their tests. I tried to contact the woman who called at least 8 times over the past couple of months and haven't heard back. Still don't know what the "results" are. I'm sure they will try to blame it on improper preparation, but maybe they'll take the blame. After thinking about it - a water based stain really can't survive if it's soaking wet / frozen for 4 -5 months out of the year. Going to sand it all off and go with an oil based stain with as many voc's as i can find!!!
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Old 08-16-2011, 09:29 AM   #7
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Hi John

Benjamin Moore won't return my calls either.
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Old 08-16-2011, 11:06 AM   #8
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Hi John

Benjamin Moore won't return my calls either.
What did you say to them? Did a rep come have a look?
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Old 08-16-2011, 02:46 PM   #9
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Or you can just use a VOC compliant oil and never worry about peeling or blending or top coating. Waterbornes/acrylics are, in my opinion, junk, no matter who manufactures them.
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Old 08-16-2011, 05:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrichards View Post
I painted my deck with arborcoat in July of 2010 (when the product first came out). I was careful to wait a year for the deck to weather (pressure treated), then scrubbed the deck with a deck cleaner, throughly rinsed and waited a few days in full sun for it to dry out. The two coat system lasted well until it was sitting under snow for the winter - at which point it started peeling off - about 30% peeled in total. I contacted Benjamin Moore who asked me to send in some samples of the peeling which I did. I heard back about three months later from benjamin moore head office who said they had the "results" of their tests. I tried to contact the woman who called at least 8 times over the past couple of months and haven't heard back. Still don't know what the "results" are. I'm sure they will try to blame it on improper preparation, but maybe they'll take the blame. After thinking about it - a water based stain really can't survive if it's soaking wet / frozen for 4 -5 months out of the year. Going to sand it all off and go with an oil based stain with as many voc's as i can find!!!
What about sanding John? Was there any mill glaze present?
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Old 08-16-2011, 06:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrichards View Post
I painted my deck with arborcoat in July of 2010 (when the product first came out). I was careful to wait a year for the deck to weather (pressure treated), then scrubbed the deck with a deck cleaner, throughly rinsed and waited a few days in full sun for it to dry out. The two coat system lasted well until it was sitting under snow for the winter - at which point it started peeling off - about 30% peeled in total. I contacted Benjamin Moore who asked me to send in some samples of the peeling which I did. I heard back about three months later from benjamin moore head office who said they had the "results" of their tests. I tried to contact the woman who called at least 8 times over the past couple of months and haven't heard back. Still don't know what the "results" are. I'm sure they will try to blame it on improper preparation, but maybe they'll take the blame. After thinking about it - a water based stain really can't survive if it's soaking wet / frozen for 4 -5 months out of the year. Going to sand it all off and go with an oil based stain with as many voc's as i can find!!!
Did you use the recommended sealer topcoat?
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Old 08-16-2011, 06:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Workaholic View Post
Did you use the recommended sealer topcoat?
He said "paint", so I'm assuming he used the solid body for his DIY project.
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Old 08-16-2011, 06:26 PM   #13
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He said "paint", so I'm assuming he used the solid body for his DIY project.
Don't they recommend the sealer for all versions?
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Old 08-16-2011, 07:22 PM   #14
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I have had the clear coat delaminate from the transparent and semi transparent on three occasions with early versions. My own deck peeled like a snake. However, did my neighbors deck, PT two years ago with transparent and clear and it looks brand new. The new 623 is the way to go. It truly is amazing. Despite what some say about Water Reducible Alkyds/Hybrids, I have found this product to be the best for a transparent finish. This is what I'll be using instead of a sacrificial system that has too many variables.
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Old 08-16-2011, 08:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Workaholic View Post
Don't they recommend the sealer for all versions?
Not for the solid and semi-solid
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