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Old 08-09-2009, 01:29 AM   #1
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Default Clear coat on cabinets.

I have a customer that wants me to repaint her kitchen cabinets and than add a clear coat to it so that it will not chip/scratch as easily. I have never put a clear coat on over painted cabinets before and really do not see the need but it is what they want. I told them I doubted it would extend the length of their cabinet paint more than a year or two. If you bang into a cabinet its still going to scratch with or without the clear coat. I am using satin impervo for the cabinet paint and was curious if any of you have any experience in this. I talked to my paint rep and he recommended an acrylic polyurethane. Does this sound reasonable. Maybe it is a stupid question but I had never heard of doing this before. Also will it effect the color any because the crown molding in the house is supposed to match the cabinets. My guess is I will have to put a clear coat on that to make the sheen the same.

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Old 08-09-2009, 09:01 AM   #2
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First, is the Impervo oil based or water based? Second, how do you plan on applying the poly? And last, you bet it's going to change the sheen.

You probably would get more help on this subject by going into a little more detail.

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Old 08-09-2009, 09:15 AM   #3
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I agree that it doesn't sound like the best thing to do for the goal intended.

If your rep says it will adhere well, not change sheen, and not change the color of the paint, ask him to sign his name to that guarantee and accept responsibility if the HO is dissatisfied.
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Old 08-09-2009, 09:30 AM   #4
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I get asked this question often.

Since you are already using Satin Impervo, You can't put just anything over that and have it stick, not change the color of the paint, and be sure it will resist scratches, chipping, etc.

In my experience, the homeowners idea of resisting scratches, and chipping are far different than our idea. They expect a bullet-proof finish like they see on cabinetry at Menards or Lowe's and you can't reach that level of durability with an alkyd enamel and polyurethane.

The Satin Impervo is a great enamel but the higher the sheen, the more likely scratches and scuffs will appear. Polyurethane over that will protect the enamel, but will scratch just as easily. I am betting the homeowner will test this theory the day after you finish the job.

Ideally, what should be done to the raw, unpainted cabinets is conversion varnish tinted to the color of the Satin Impervo, then a clear coat of conversion varnish over that. These are much more resistant to daily use and while not nearly as easy to apply as enamel and poly, pratically eliminate the dreaded call backs when things start chipping off.

You can keep going in the direction you are now, enamel and poly, and it will look good and perform OK, but the homeowner needs to understand that this system has to cure at least 30 days to delevop its maximum hardness and durability. Secondly, they need to understand that this system, while being cost-effective, may not give them 10 years of servicable life if they abuse the cabinets (I've seen jobs like this fail in 12 months due to the homeowners habits).

Good luck and let me know if you have any other questions.
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Old 08-09-2009, 11:18 AM   #5
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Impervo is oil based made by benjamin moore it is a fairly hard enamel from my experience and holds up as well as paint can be expected. These are previously painted cabinets not new so I will have to sand, clean, touch up caulk and paint. I'm going to brush out the enamel not spray because it is an older house and they want the brushed look. This should also provide a higher film build for more protection. Im certain that the clear coat will change the sheen there is no doubt in my mind. I explained to the home owner that paint and poly have a life span it is not bullet proof by any means. I told them I would not guarentee it longer than just an enamel job. If you bang into it it will scratch or chip. I never guarentee damage by homeowners. Is there a harder clear coat I could put over the top. It is a time and material job so the cost of the material is not really an issue. If there is a better enamel i'm open to that too. There is currently an oil based enamel on them.

thanks for the help
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Old 08-09-2009, 11:25 AM   #6
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I have never put on conversion varnish. My guess is it will not work on these since it is previously painted. Does it require special equipment besides basic sprayers and brushes. I'm going read up on it here today. Maybe ill give that a try on the next new cavinets I do.
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Old 08-09-2009, 11:55 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by jacob33 View Post
I have never put on conversion varnish. My guess is it will not work on these since it is previously painted. Does it require special equipment besides basic sprayers and brushes. I'm going read up on it here today. Maybe ill give that a try on the next new cavinets I do.

Yup, CV is only for new work, you should not use on prefinished work of this nature.

You can Google Conversion Varnish or Extended Pot Life Conversion Varnish and get plenty of results.

Has to be applied with spray equipment, and a good old airless rig with a .411 or .410 tip works fine. Just don't leave it in the pump overnight, the catalyst will react with the metal and turn your varnish black.

Look at the Woodweb Forum also.
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Old 08-09-2009, 11:59 AM   #8
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[quote] Is there a harder clear coat I could put over the top. [quote]

Because of formulations, there is not much you can put over the top of painted surface. If you had to use something, a waterbased polyurethane is going to be the most compatible (not react with the enamel and cause a wrinkle).

Always test before doing the whole job (like finish a drawer front, allow 2-3 days cure then try to scratch it off).
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Old 08-09-2009, 03:32 PM   #9
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Jacob,

IMO, chipping is going to be affected greatest by how the original paint is adhered to the cabs. Something you have no control over. Laying on multiple coats may "cushion" the impact of a cooking utensil, but who knows how that original paint was applied or what it was applied over. The original coating may have been by some bozo who applied the wrong paint without washing off all the grease, smoke, and dirt and did not sand properly.

Now, I do not know if this paint has been castrated like all solvent based paints, but in the 90's I used a lot of California Products' Larcoloid which is Urethane Fortified. The new label says it is for metal only, but that may (or may not) be a legal loophole.

That stuff was the most bullet proof paint I have ever used. It is high gloss which makes it, IMO, a great kitchen paint as the dirt, grease, and dust is much easier to wash off.
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Old 08-09-2009, 03:54 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob33 View Post
I have a customer that wants me to repaint her kitchen cabinets and than add a clear coat to it so that it will not chip/scratch as easily. I have never put a clear coat on over painted cabinets before and really do not see the need but it is what they want. I told them I doubted it would extend the length of their cabinet paint more than a year or two. If you bang into a cabinet its still going to scratch with or without the clear coat. I am using satin impervo for the cabinet paint and was curious if any of you have any experience in this. I talked to my paint rep and he recommended an acrylic polyurethane. Does this sound reasonable. Maybe it is a stupid question but I had never heard of doing this before. Also will it effect the color any because the crown molding in the house is supposed to match the cabinets. My guess is I will have to put a clear coat on that to make the sheen the same.

Thank you
Jacob

I have added a coating at times to cabinet shelves for added toughness..I forget the name of the product,but it looks like a milky white liquid when applied and dries clear..You can get it in any sheen ...I think it has the term "diamond" in the name..
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Old 08-11-2009, 03:22 AM   #11
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helmsman spar urethane depending on the undercoat im sure it will work with oil base paint....maybe not
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Old 08-11-2009, 04:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedrin View Post
I have added a coating at times to cabinet shelves for added toughness..I forget the name of the product,but it looks like a milky white liquid when applied and dries clear..You can get it in any sheen ...I think it has the term "diamond" in the name..
That would be the Varathane line of Poly's...mostly the floor stuff. I have used quite a bit of the WB floor poly Varathane for trim, doors, etc. The stuff is tough.
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Old 10-09-2009, 06:48 AM   #13
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Hi,

You can use an acrylic based primer before applying the paint. This will help prepare the surface to accept the paint. Two coats of paint is usually sufficient.
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:04 PM   #14
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I've painted cabinets and put a clear coat on after. I used DTM and then applied SW wood classics waterborne poly satin and it adhered very well and turned out excellent. I sprayed everything and sanded the clear and applied another coat after. The finish turned out awesome and was super smooth.
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:26 PM   #15
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Looks good: What DTM did you use? Just wondering why you clear over, was it not as smooth?
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Old 10-11-2009, 10:01 PM   #16
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I used SW DTM acrylic. I used the clear mainly because you can't get a satin in the DTM, they are only available in high gloss and low gloss. I would've used a pre cat cabinet lacquer but I could'nt get any one to match the sheen I needed so I went this route. It turned out really nice and the best thing the contractor and HO were happy!
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Old 10-11-2009, 10:07 PM   #17
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Looks really good. I use a local made DTM up here a lot, I think it comes in Velvet, satin and Semi Gloss, not sure about HG. Have you used Pittsburgh DTM?
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Old 10-11-2009, 10:24 PM   #18
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I've heard of it but never used it. I just started talking to a dealer that sells it and I'm thinking of trying some on another project. I usually use SW because it is close and the contractor I work with uses them too.
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Old 10-12-2009, 12:43 PM   #19
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love love love that kitchen!!!!

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