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Old 08-06-2015, 09:13 PM   #1
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Default First Time Using PPG BreakThrough

Finally got to try the PPG BreakThrough. Until recently it just wasn't available here. The local Glidden store has been changed to PPG, so now it's here.

What prompted me to give it a try was a new cabinet job I did last month using Advance. I've used a good bit of Advance over last few years on trim and cabinets. Always been pastel colors, various whites. On this cab job, the color was Amherst Grey (HC-167), a Base3 color. Now I've heard others on this forum say that the cure time for darker colors in Advance is really longer than the lighter colors. Boy is that true. After 9 days, the drawer faces were still tending to stick to the face-frames of the cabinets. Something I think BM is gonna have to address at some point.

Back to the Breakthrough. I was repainting a bathroom in my own house, so I thought I'd give it a try. Sprayed 6 cab doors with a Capspray 9100 HVLP.
Had to cut it with water and XIM extender to get it to atomize. Same color over existing PC acrylic, so this wasn't much of a test as far as adhesion. But with the fast dry time, I did paint and rehang doors same day.

Next test was some small wooden folding chairs for a client. The chairs were new. Looked like they had a dark green stain topcoated with some kind of clear finish. The finish was slick enough that I kind of doubted an acrlyic finish paint would bond to it. I cleaned with Krudcutter and rinsed well. Next day, I sprayed some Breakthrough on a section of one chair. After a couple of hours of drying, it passed the old fingernail scratch test.

So to RePaint Florida and the rest here who've recommended PPG Breakthrough, thanks for the tip. It seems to be all you've claimed it to be.
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Old 08-06-2015, 11:18 PM   #2
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Slinger58
find you a kick ball and spray half of it then the next day squeeze it, try to peel it off, hell kick it around and you'll see how good it bonds

now you see how with its fast dry we can spray over 300 doors and ship them out the same week, try that with other paints and see how that works out

Finished one set of cabinets yesterday & start another set tomorrow
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Old 08-06-2015, 11:22 PM   #3
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What primer are you guts using.
We use Stix or Smart Prime under Advance.
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Old 08-06-2015, 11:36 PM   #4
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That's great man. I don't think if I would have heard about, or tried it as soon as I did if not for PT. I've used it on three sets of cabinets so far, and I'm sure I'll continue with it in some situations.

Haven't tried the gloss yet, only the satin. Wondering if I might use the gloss as a trim paint in some cases. It would be handy for hard to stick scenarios like oil conversion. Looking at the specs the gloss seems to not have have too much more sheen than your average semi gloss. Around 10 units higher than Advance semi for example. Wondering if it might not pass for a semi gloss trim paint.

The satin is quite dull. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. I like it fine for cabinets, just a little dull for a trim paint in most cases.
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Old 08-06-2015, 11:36 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Repaint Florida View Post
Slinger58
find you a kick ball and spray half of it then the next day squeeze it, try to peel it off, hell kick it around and you'll see how good it bonds

now you see how with its fast dry we can spray over 300 doors and ship them out the same week, try that with other paints and see how that works out

Finished one set of cabinets yesterday & start another set tomorrow
How's the durability long term, RF? Got good feedback on that?
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Old 08-06-2015, 11:52 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Jmayspaint View Post
That's great man. I don't think if I would have heard about, or tried it as soon as I did if not for PT. I've used it on three sets of cabinets so far, and I'm sure I'll continue with it in some situations.

Haven't tried the gloss yet, only the satin. Wondering if I might use the gloss as a trim paint in some cases. It would be handy for hard to stick scenarios like oil conversion. Looking at the specs the gloss seems to not have have too much more sheen than your average semi gloss. Around 10 units higher than Advance semi for example. Wondering if it might not pass for a semi gloss trim paint.

The satin is quite dull. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. I like it fine for cabinets, just a little dull for a trim paint in most cases.
In my experience, gloss acrylic=semi-gloss oil. The adhesion of the Breakthrough was what really impressed me. And the dry time.

And yeah, same here as far as awareness of the product. If not for PT, I'd never have known.
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Old 08-07-2015, 12:06 AM   #7
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I usually use Advance for all of my cabinet re paints but thought I would give Breakthrough a shot on this next one. I use a Graco 9.5 HVLP to spray them out and was wondering if you guys use plain water to thin it to atomize properly? On a side note, I purchased the Breakthrough at the local PPG store which I never go to and had to do a double take when I looked at my receipt later. Granted I do not have a charge account there yet, but I am a professional painter and they charged me 77$ per gallon! Their paint rep is supposed to call me and boy am I going to let him hear about it. That price will need to change or it will be the last time I use Breakthrough or any PPG product for that matter!
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Old 08-07-2015, 12:28 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Atomize View Post
I usually use Advance for all of my cabinet re paints but thought I would give Breakthrough a shot on this next one. I use a Graco 9.5 HVLP to spray them out and was wondering if you guys use plain water to thin it to atomize properly? On a side note, I purchased the Breakthrough at the local PPG store which I never go to and had to do a double take when I looked at my receipt later. Granted I do not have a charge account there yet, but I am a professional painter and they charged me 77$ per gallon! Their paint rep is supposed to call me and boy am I going to let him hear about it. That price will need to change or it will be the last time I use Breakthrough or any PPG product for that matter!
That's strong! I think it was 48.99 here with no account.
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Old 08-07-2015, 12:43 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by slinger58 View Post
How's the durability long term, RF? Got good feedback on that?
I have been using Breakthrough for the last 4-5 years and have only had 1 customer tell me about a couple small spots on cabinet doors that flaked off. I was not surprised because those particular doors were " modified " by a contractor. I spent an entire day trying to get his modifications to a point that I could even prime them. (scraping caulk and other fillers)
I have sprayed several sets of new unfinished cabinets without any primer with excellent results.
The main difference I have found between Breakthrough and Advance is the sheen is lower and the finish has a "softer" feel with Breakthrough. Advance has a more true satin appearance and dries to a more oil base feel finish once it has fully cured. I like them both but when time is of the essence Breakthrough wins hands down.
I have also found that the factory tinted colors like Wrought Iron Black do take longer to dry when sprayed.
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Old 08-07-2015, 01:54 AM   #10
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Default First Time Using PPG BreakThrough

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomize View Post
I usually use Advance for all of my cabinet re paints but thought I would give Breakthrough a shot on this next one. I use a Graco 9.5 HVLP to spray them out and was wondering if you guys use plain water to thin it to atomize properly? On a side note, I purchased the Breakthrough at the local PPG store which I never go to and had to do a double take when I looked at my receipt later. Granted I do not have a charge account there yet, but I am a professional painter and they charged me 77$ per gallon! Their paint rep is supposed to call me and boy am I going to let him hear about it. That price will need to change or it will be the last time I use Breakthrough or any PPG product for that matter!

No doubt that's a high price per gal, but how many gallons do you use on an average cabinet job? 3? Heck, even if you were to use 4 gallons, I'm guessing the difference in price between the 4 gals of Breakthrough vs. Advance wouldn't be much more than $150, (which your customer pays anyways). Think of the potential time saved between being able to complete the project quicker, ( quicker dry, quicker re-coats, quicker turnaround), as well as not having to spend time fixing nicks from uncured Advance during re-installation.
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Old 08-07-2015, 07:44 AM   #11
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Are y'all priming first or just cleaning and shooting breakthrough right after?

I've yet to try it out but I'm looking forward to getting my hands on a gallon and playing around with it.

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Old 08-07-2015, 09:18 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbriggs82
Are y'all priming first or just cleaning and shooting breakthrough right after? I've yet to try it out but I'm looking forward to getting my hands on a gallon and playing around with it. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
I do not plan on priming first with the breakthrough because they are factory painted. Just a scuff sand and cleaning. If they were bare wood or cleared I would plan on using a bonding primer such as Stix. I have had fantastic results using Stix under the Advance.
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Old 08-07-2015, 09:29 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stelzerpaintinginc.
No doubt that's a high price per gal, but how many gallons do you use on an average cabinet job? 3? Heck, even if you were to use 4 gallons, I'm guessing the difference in price between the 4 gals of Breakthrough vs. Advance wouldn't be much more than $150, (which your customer pays anyways). Think of the potential time saved between being able to complete the project quicker, ( quicker dry, quicker re-coats, quicker turnaround), as well as not having to spend time fixing nicks from uncured Advance during re-installation.
I totally get what your saying and do see the benefits that Breakthrough could potentially have. But I have a real problem being bent over like that on the price when I know damn well other contractors are paying significantly less. They are making me feel like a DIYer with that price. I hope with some communication, they will reconsider to move forward with forging a new business relationship. If not, oh well because I have been using Advance with excellent results so far and my BM dealer REALLY cares about their contractors needs.
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Old 08-07-2015, 09:34 AM   #14
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I'd have to admit PPG made a great purchase when they bought the company that developed and manufactured that product. I sold the hell out of it in Socal. Voc complying, fast dry, hard as nails, tint bases, water clean up. Hard to believe the original company almost went belly up. Just another one swallowed up by the corporate system I guess.
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Old 08-07-2015, 09:36 AM   #15
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That's strong! I think it was 48.99 here with no account.
High forties is right where it should be for contractors. Beat your rep up on this.
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Old 08-07-2015, 09:39 AM   #16
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What ever happened to all you guys that were spraying pre-cat w/r epoxy on cabinets? I can't get rid of the stuff at $38 a gallon!
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Old 08-07-2015, 09:50 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by PACman
What ever happened to all you guys that were spraying pre-cat w/r epoxy on cabinets? I can't get rid of the stuff at $38 a gallon!
There were quite a few that stated good results with the Pre-cat. I plan to try spraying it sometime but feel it is a thicker product and would need to be thinned quite a bit to atomize properly with my HVLP. When I do try it, I have an airless with FF tips just in case it doesn't like being thinned down too much.
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Old 08-07-2015, 10:18 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomize View Post
I totally get what your saying and do see the benefits that Breakthrough could potentially have. But I have a real problem being bent over like that on the price when I know damn well other contractors are paying significantly less. They are making me feel like a DIYer with that price. I hope with some communication, they will reconsider to move forward with forging a new business relationship. If not, oh well because I have been using Advance with excellent results so far and my BM dealer REALLY cares about their contractors needs.
This is why I have 1 standard price and any special pricing is done on a per job basis. I give everyone a good price, no one has to feel like they're getting screwed, and there's no fighting me for price because they feel like if they don't they'll be hosed. Contractors sleep better knowing they're getting a good price, and I sleep better because I don't have to deal with constant recalculations of margins and trying to figure out how low I can go. Only time I re-price is if I'm getting a big job and BM lowers my cost on it.
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Old 08-07-2015, 11:18 AM   #19
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Default First Time Using PPG BreakThrough

If you don't have a charge account I don't think you can 'feel screwed'.
Retail 100% of sticker price
Painter in whites off street no account -10%
Have an account and only buy a few gallons a year -15% to -20%
Large painting company that buys it in large volume +\- 35%

Your paint rep will be able to bring the price down, but it's a game. You need to open a commercial account, and he needs to lower the price. That way you both get something out of the deal.
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Old 08-07-2015, 01:53 PM   #20
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If you don't have a charge account I don't think you can 'feel screwed'.
Retail 100% of sticker price
Painter in whites off street no account -10%
Have an account and only buy a few gallons a year -15% to -20%
Large painting company that buys it in large volume +\- 35%

Your paint rep will be able to bring the price down, but it's a game. You need to open a commercial account, and he needs to lower the price. That way you both get something out of the deal.
I kind of get where you're coming from, but on the other hand some companies mark their products way up (far inflated compared to a normal MSRP) for the shelf price to give an illusion of value to the people buying it at a normal rate. If this is the case, you really are getting screwed if you pay the shelf price. Just my opinion.

For example, I walked into a SW a while back dressed in clean, normal-person clothes and asked for a single gallon of ProMar 400. He told me it was $ 59 (hah), but he put me on the "contractor rate" so I got it for $ 30. I didn't ask for the rate, I wasn't buying in bulk, and I told him it was a one time deal. If I didn't 'deserve' to pay shelf price in that situation, clearly no one does. I'm not saying this to slam SW, I'm just saying that sometimes the shelf price is a price that no one does (or should) pay.
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