Professional Painting Contractors Forum banner

Horizontal flashing on drywall

9K views 27 replies 11 participants last post by  Rbriggs82 
#1 ·
This is more of an FYI post than any product post.
I just got back from looking at a warehouse to office building conversion job that I was asked to look at by one of my regular customers. The job is basically painting some bare drywall in a job that is a warehouse being converted into offices. There is one long wall on one side that is in the hallway with offices on the other side. This wall is 120 feet long and pretty much unbroken by anything but a couple of windows.

My customer had sprayed and backrolled two coats of Duration satin. When you look down the wall you can see horizontal flashing all the way down the wall! I told him I was pretty sure it wasn't the paint because you could see a slight pattern to it. It was visible at the top of the wall for 10-15 feet then it was at the bottom for a while and back at the top and on and on. I told him it couldn't be the paint but asked him if it was primed. No, it wasn't primed. Just two coats of Durations. It was pretty obvious to me that what we were seeing was the drywall sheets being hung different directions and the flashing was just on one end of the sheets.

Took me just a couple of seconds to realize it was a problem with the drywall
paper causing a hold-out issue. My only solution to give to him was to prime over it and put another coat on or at least do another coat and see if it got rid of it. Unfortunately of course that meant he would loose his butt profit wise on the job! I told him that I doubted that the drywall company would help him out because the finish spec on the drywall probably called out for a primer to be applied before topcoating. And I told him SW probably wouldn't do anything for him either but that I would ask his rep about it. But it is technically a substrate problem and I doubt if SW would do anything but maybe give him some more paint. I believe Durations says it can be used without a primer on "properly prepared" bare drywall, but that is the issue. Is it "properly prepared" if the drywall spec says a primer is needed but isn't used?

So anyhow the moral of the story is that with the variations in quality control on the drywall paper, which is un-sealed recycled paper to begin with, you are always taking a chance when you paint with any kind of sheen or gloss without a prime coat. Who is ultimately responsible for any hold-out or flashing issues? I know most new construction is done without a primer, but are you and can you as a painter cover your a55 when something like this happens? Just something to consider. I make my money whether you prime or not, but I just wanted to share this with you all so you have a little more foresight when you are bidding new construction.
 
See less See more
#2 ·
I've never even thought about this, but wouldn't all drywall spec being primed prior to top coating? Or is that even their responsibility to have to be concerned with?

There's absolutely no way I would ever even consider painting a 120' long wall of brand new drywall without priming it first. I just don't like having to fix major problems like that for free.
 
#4 ·
I just reread the original post. Seriously? Most new construction is done without priming? Not around here it's not. Even the cheapskate GCs around here prime every bit of new drywall.

That's absolutely bizarre. I've never even heard of that.

So, now what do you do? Throw another coat of satin on top of this and hope that helps, or prime it now (not sure what that would accomplish) knowing you have to throw two coats of satin on top of that and hope that works?

To me, that's like the painters greatest sin of latex over oil. Now what do you do? There's really not an optimal fix without too many variables.
 
#6 ·
Who spec'd Duration Home Satin in an office conversion? That would be your biggest mistake, way to shiny of a coating and so much money for that type of work. I know you hate it, but PM200 eggshell would have been the proper coating, primed with PM200 zero primer.

Why would the contractor, lose his butt over 960 sq/ft of drywall painting? What is that three gallons of paint and a couple of hours of labor, barely any cutting in if any, just roll up to the top and call it good.
 
#9 ·
Knowing whats going on around here bid wise he probably bid so low he was losing his a55 before he put the FIRST coat on! And you are right, this is exactly the kind of job where PM 200 would suffice. If the primer was used!
 
  • Like
Reactions: MikeCalifornia
#8 ·
You all aren't working in northern Ohio! I see some seriously f-ed up stuff being done. BUT, bare drywall was almost never primed in Socal back in the 80's and 90's, at least in the tract houses. Two coats of flat and that's it. First coat the homeowner puts on? Flash city! I didn't spec the paint and I haven't seen the finish spec's on the job (if there are any!) so I really don't know why he would have done this this way. He has been painting for 20 years or so. He's probably done it before and not had a problem. Idk. Just....PRIME BARE DRYWALL WHENEVER YOU CAN is my point. You never know how crappy the drywall paper itself is. That's why the drywall companies cover their a55es.
 
  • Like
Reactions: journeymanPainter
#11 ·
Not for nothing but the incorrect primer or sealer prior to paint would allow the same issue to persist. It's been printed, typed and talked about in great length on here and else where. There are the two basic issues to worry about with smooth drywall.

1) difference in texture between paper and joints/screw holes.

2) difference in porosity between paper face and joint compound (there is also different porosities between different weights of compounds and different manufacturers).

Problem 1 can be resolved with skim coating or a spray on surfacer. Problem two can be tackled with the right paint or primer or sealer. Problem two has many opinions thrown around on this site as to which is best.

Recently I have been using guardz as recommended by others on this site. Homedepot.com free shipping for 5g pails.
Jack Pauhl on this site says behr ultra egg shell seals best for him.
Others use other primers and drywall pva and etc.

If the primer doesn't actually seal the surface you will have uneven absorption until enough paint is n the wall to hopefully seal it. However sanding or skim coating may be needed because now their is a physical texture difference between the painted paper and painted mud.

YMMV.
 
#12 ·
It's simple. New stuff gets a coat of primer (not pva), the real stuff....seal grip,123, whatever. 2 coats of finish. Personally, I'd never put a primer that didn't have a sheen to start with on something I knew I was gonna put a sheen on to finish....smh. dumbass gets what he's got coming to him. Could saved the $on duration, bought 200 or ultra hide (or whatever it's called - I'm still adjusting to ppg products) and bought primer at a box store and been done with it....
 
#13 ·
One thorough coat of Gardz followed up with a quick 2nd coat of Gardz, let dry thoroughly. Probably any paint will look good over this. I would be curious if the paint would still be wet where the rolling started after the rolling was finished. Gardz really prevents the water in paint from being sucked into the wall. Also, I believe that Jack Pauhl's favorite primer/sealer for bare drywall is Gardz. Google it.

futtyos
 
#15 ·
One thorough coat of Gardz followed up with a quick 2nd coat of Gardz, let dry thoroughly. Probably any paint will look good over this. I would be curious if the paint would still be wet where the rolling started after the rolling was finished. Gardz really prevents the water in paint from being sucked into the wall. Also, I believe that Jack Pauhl's favorite primer/sealer for bare drywall is Gardz. Google it.

futtyos
who everyone knows is the painting GOD and WIZARD and knows all.:rolleyes:


aside from that ,Gardz would have prevented what happened
 
#14 ·
And Jack Paul thinks behr is best so there's that...I'm not saying gardz won't work, just about anything that seals will the point is laying primer (there's good reason that they still make it and that it's cheaper than finish) down likely would've either helped tremendously or completely eliminated the problem if it is the finish that's the problem and not poor drywall skills rearing their ugly head.
 
#17 ·
since 1999, when I returned to Ohio and started selling paint here, I doubt if I have sold 5 gallons of Gardz. And that was to the same painter! Hard to believe I know, but it gives you a good idea what's going on here.
 
#19 ·
If anyone here can come up with a better and more convenient sealer than Gardz for evening out flat enamel and higher sheen paints, please let us all know. Perhaps there are some alkyd based primer/sealers out there that are better, but cleanup is not and fumes are worse.

That being said, Gardz will not get rid of poor drywall skills as lilpaintchic mentioned above.

futtyos
 
#20 ·
123,sealgrip,problock, even kilz 2 are easy and cost effective alternatives for those who don't have easy access to gardz which is a great product overall, but more expensive, has the consistency of water (which can be problematic) can't be tinted like a traditional primer, and is not AS readily available. It's more like watered down Elmers glue Tham anything I cam think of off hand. I think it does give ya more Sq footage though so that offsets the cost a bit overall....the point is to penetrate and build a uniform sheen and there's a dozen products available to do that to avoid problems as discribed by the op. At the end of the day, we all have experienced enough flashing issues with sheen ed paints to know that 3 coats total (1 primer,2 paint) is a very efficient system and trying to "beat" that system usually ends up costing more in time and frustration than it does to just get it done the standard way from the beginning....some folks just need a few more bumps on the head to figure it out I guess.....the op referred to a guy with 20+years of experience and he rolled the dice with an expensive product and lost. Education in this line of work is pretty expensive.
 
#27 ·
Somebody once told me that the average Costco in Canada is roughly 100K square feet. Down in the states, they're on average 10 times that size.

You can even buy cars there! You can buy groceries, cars, TVs, furniture, boats, etc. Literally, just about anything you could possibly ever need. Is that true? Only place in the USA I've ever been is Vegas and I wasn't there to go to Costco.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top