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Old 04-19-2017, 12:28 PM   #1
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Default Idiot Clients

In all the years we have painted (run a business) never have we had idiot clients like we do today! Usually our clients are super nice - offer coffee etc., sometimes even offer to help (always refuse that offer!) and generally are very happy to see their projects happening. Our current client, absolute asses and there is nothing I can do about it but finish and run for the hills. We are treated like slaves and told when to come and go. The client was having two bedrooms, hallway, bathroom and office painted - they didn't move one damn thing out of they way - even left the pictures hanging on the wall so instead of making a big fuss we would clear as we went along. In the office they had this huge filing cabinet that we should have painted around since we are not furniture movers but instead we moved it. The next day, after we finish painting the ass says "my filing cabinet won't close and I will have to get a lock smith to fix it and send you the bill". well we did fix it in less than 30 seconds but would not move it back into it's original spot. The thing that pissed me off was the way he said it and that he waited until the end of the day to say it. Today we went back for yet another round at 9 in the morning to finish up and are sent away for three hours so their baby can sleep! Are you serious, what the hell are we going to do for 3 hours! Oh how I want to finish - should be fun trying to get paid from this job! Wondering if anyone else has had asshole clients.
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Old 04-19-2017, 04:13 PM   #2
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We have and many of us have. Some are hard to spot right away. Their answers are what we want to hear then we get to the job and they think they own us.

I tell people straight out for us to move a dresser its at an hourly rate, no matter if it takes a second or few minutes we tack on an hour labor for each thing we have to move. There are exceptions, pregnant, elderly or handicapped we will move every thing at no charge. Our rates are not cheap at all so it adds up very fast. We will also walk off a job if the person thinks they own us while we are there. Sorry no one owns me, I do what I want (Words from the great Cartman).

When we have had to move a Filing cabinet we make sure the owner is there, right in front of them open each draw to more or less keep from having to buy a new one when they say we broke it. I also will take video and pictures when we move stuff.
Knock on wood the very very few times we were blammed for breaking something we did and knew it was on us.

Some people just suck.
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Old 04-19-2017, 04:23 PM   #3
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Time to review / re-word your contracts. Spell it all out no matter how common sense it seems.
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Old 04-19-2017, 05:05 PM   #4
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The client was having two bedrooms, hallway, bathroom and office painted - they didn't move one damn thing out of they way - even left the pictures hanging on the wall so instead of making a big fuss we would clear as we went along. In the office they had this huge filing cabinet that we should have painted around since we are not furniture movers but instead we moved it.

Today we went back for yet another round at 9 in the morning to finish up and are sent away for three hours so their baby can sleep! Are you serious, what the hell are we going to do for 3 hours! Oh how I want to finish - should be fun trying to get paid from this job! Wondering if anyone else has had asshole clients.
I don't believe your clients are idiots (people don't know how you work or your process. They can't read your mind - If you don't explain to them in writing before the work begins, stuff like this may happen from time to time.

I believe you need terms and stipulations in your contract. Without terms, anything goes - so shame on you. With terms, you are in the drivers seat.
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Old 04-19-2017, 05:07 PM   #5
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At the end of the day, you have to control your customers to an extent. I'll try and be accommodating within reason. The stuff you're describing is absolute idiocy. I put up with some of that stuff when I first started out.

Over the years, I've learned that customers need direction. If not firm direction. I used to be kind of squeamish about telling customers what they needed to do. That's definitely worn off over time.
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Old 04-19-2017, 05:34 PM   #6
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I don't believe your clients are idiots (people don't know how you work or your process. They can't read your mind - If you don't explain to them in writing before the work begins, stuff like this may happen from time to time.



I believe you need terms and stipulations in your contract. Without terms, anything goes - so shame on you. With terms, you are in the drivers seat.


I don't think these clients are idiots either. But I'm pretty dang sure they're Grade A assholes.


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Old 04-19-2017, 05:48 PM   #7
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I don't think these clients are idiots either. But I'm pretty dang sure they're Grade A assholes.


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There are a-holes everywhere (just take a drive on the roads). We have to protect our businesses and employees with a stiff-detailed-terms in contract. And make them initial every page. If you do work without one - you get what you get, shame on you. I have run into people like this in my day (the list is endless), I feel his pain. Instead of complaining about it. Put it in writing. Have a customer responsibility clause and/or to-do-list, and give it to them line by line.

I just signed a lease to rent a house, you should see the 11 page contract I had to sign, it was scary. They covered anything and everything.

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Old 04-19-2017, 05:54 PM   #8
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I always find it interesting to see other companies policies on moving furniture, wall hangings, etc.. I know several posters here have detailed contract stipulations about the customer's responsibility as far as preparing the space for painting.

I've always offered full service interior painting. We move and cover all furniture, remove all wall hangings, and put everything back when we're done as a matter of course. It's just part of the deal.

I suppose it would be nice to ask customers to move their own furniture, or hire another company to do it, but I feel like that kind of policy wouldn't go over too well with the kind of upper class customer we market to. I can't imagine telling some rich lawyer or doctor that they needed to move furniture for us any more than I can imagine asking them to take off their own switch plates. Our service is all inclusive.

We're all different I suppose. The things laid out in the OP as being indicative of "idiocy" are things I do for my customers on every job.


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Old 04-19-2017, 05:55 PM   #9
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Moving furniture,covering floors, taking down drapes, etc are all part of the job. No client I know will hire you the minute you tell them you charge for moving furniture or setting up. We just build it into estimate. We do have clauses about moving breakable stuff or hanging pictures but sadly as with all things some people are good about it and some are not.

It's very very very competitive here and painting contractors are a dime a dozen so if you want to act like you don't need the work you won't get the work. There's plenty of illegals just waiting to paint for low wages and work long hours and plenty of legit contractors who are hungry for work.

But I must say in all my years I was never asked to leave to let a baby sleep
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Old 04-19-2017, 06:13 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Jmayspaint View Post
I've always offered full service interior painting. We move and cover all furniture, remove all wall hangings, and put everything back when we're done as a matter of course. It's just part of the deal.
Full service painting, doesn't mean moving pictures from walls and clutter, so you can paint. I move furniture and window treatments only.

I just went on an estimate and the HO asked me if I will remove and reinstall a wall mounted TV?, I said no! He said, "I don't understand, you can't remove a TV", I said, "I can, I just don't offer it at part of my service, and I honestly don't want the liability".
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Old 04-19-2017, 06:26 PM   #11
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Telling the painters to leave for 3 hours while the baby slept is what landed them on what Gough refers to as the "fecal roster".

The longer you're in the business, the better your screening process gets. Rather than a lengthy detailed written contract, I'd rather just sift out the a-holes.


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Old 04-19-2017, 06:50 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by slinger58 View Post
Telling the painters to leave for 3 hours while the baby slept is what landed them on what Gough refers to as the "fecal roster".

The longer you're in the business, the better your screening process gets. Rather than a lengthy detailed written contract, I'd rather just sift out the a-holes.

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How do you screen a customer from hiring a plumber to install a new sink on the same day you plan to paint their kitchen? Happened to me in the fall.

Everyone should have something like this in their contract.

CUSTOMER RESPONSIBILITY:
  • Please take specific note of job description.
  • Please have all colors chosen one (1) week prior to start date. Additional costs may be charged for color changes made after commencement of work.
  • Please have fragile or breakable items and electronics moved out of work areas prior to start of project or additional charges may be incurred
  • Please have all alarms turned off while work is in progress.

ACCESS TO THE JOB SITE:
  • Customer agrees and understands that they must provided access to the jobsite, between the hours of; 8 a.m. and 5 p.m., Monday through Friday, for the duration of this job.
  • Customer agrees not to postpone, or interrupt the 5 day work schedule, for any reason, causing delay to the timely completion of this job or additional charges may be incurred.

My favorite line: THIS IS A LEGALLY BINDING AGREEMENT
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Old 04-19-2017, 07:33 PM   #13
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These types of customers I call "Under the Thumb" people. They are "controllers." They want you "under their thumb" til the project is over. They can control you which gives them some sort of power that they normally wouldn't have. They treat you like employees. It sucks, it really does. And these are the type of people you DON'T want giving your name and number out to friends.
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:19 PM   #14
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These types of customers I call "Under the Thumb" people. They are "controllers." They want you "under their thumb" til the project is over. They can control you which gives them some sort of power that they normally wouldn't have. They treat you like employees. It sucks, it really does. And these are the type of people you DON'T want giving your name and number out to friends.
NO, no no! Not with this in your contract:

Independent Contractor Rules
  • We have the right to work without direction according to our own processes, methods and plans; we the contractor are not subject to another's control except for what is specified in a mutually binding agreement for a specific job.
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:00 PM   #15
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Many of my customers are elderly, or female. I can only imagine them attempting to remove valances, blinds and brackets, wall mounted televisions, desks with shelves screwed to the wall, etc. What I can't imagine is them hiring somebody else to do all this prior to my painting. I guess it could happen, but I am not going to count on it.

I just figure the cost for the time for me to deal with these painting obstacles, and include it in my bid. Do I like having to remove and remount these items? Heck no, but it is part of the job, and as others have said, demanding that these things are out of my way prior to painting would probably eliminate me from consideration as a painter for them. I think my ability and willingness to deal with this aspect is a selling point. And I have worked in homes where the homeowners attempted to remove things, and they caused more problems for me than time saved.
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slinger58 View Post
Telling the painters to leave for 3 hours while the baby slept is what landed them on what Gough refers to as the "fecal roster".

The longer you're in the business, the better your screening process gets. Rather than a lengthy detailed written contract, I'd rather just sift out the a-holes.


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I agree with you. With this caveat;

If a contractor I hired was taking longer than expected to complete a job, and inconvenienced me for an extra day with no change of the scope of work or explanation, I might just ask them to leave for a baby nap.

Not saying that's the case with the OP, just spit balling.

To the OP I would ask;

Did the customer clearly understand their responsibilities under the scope of work?

Was there a time frame stipulated in the scope of work?




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Old 04-19-2017, 10:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmayspaint View Post
I always find it interesting to see other companies policies on moving furniture, wall hangings, etc.. I know several posters here have detailed contract stipulations about the customer's responsibility as far as preparing the space for painting.

I've always offered full service interior painting. We move and cover all furniture, remove all wall hangings, and put everything back when we're done as a matter of course. It's just part of the deal.

I suppose it would be nice to ask customers to move their own furniture, or hire another company to do it, but I feel like that kind of policy wouldn't go over too well with the kind of upper class customer we market to. I can't imagine telling some rich lawyer or doctor that they needed to move furniture for us any more than I can imagine asking them to take off their own switch plates. Our service is all inclusive.

We're all different I suppose. The things laid out in the OP as being indicative of "idiocy" are things I do for my customers on every job.


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A good site visit, and some consideration in your contract is absolutely half of this equation! For my part, I specify in the contract whether a space is unoccupied or occupied. If it is unoccupied, I ask for keyed access, and price accordingly. If it is occupied I ask for "reasonable access" 8AM-5PM Mon-Fri, with access to utilities (water, electric, and heat) -- and YES I have that in there for a reason - cheap customers who don't run heat and wonder why caulk cracks out!

If it is occupied, additionally, a site visit lets me get a handle on how many pieces of furniture are in a room. It's about an hour per room, with special consideration for big pieces like a piano or a TV mount or something that has to get dissasembled. And, no matter what, I always ask the customer, via contract (Client will move all pictures, personal, fragile, or electronic items.)

I put moving furniture in with Dust Control, and Post Construction cleanup. Definitely charge for it, account for it, but it's part of full service. (Division 1 "site conditions" for those who follow CSI)

But as for sending you away that is ****ty - even if you don't have an airtight contract - it's pretty inconsiderate. I hate that attitude, and I've occasionally run into people that want to abuse you. I definitely pick up on it, and would turn down work at this point. I had one guy hire me at T&M to skim coat a ceiling, which I had figured on two guys for a week. He kept bullying me to say whether I'd be done thursday or not, and eventually, feeling good about our progress, I told him we would. Well, when it came back to coming in on Friday, he beat me up on the price (pretended like he didn't understand that I was charging per man-hour, not per crew-hour for both of us. . . . even though it was clear in the agreement) and ultimately left the discussion unresolved for me to deal with his admitedly very sweet wife, but not before giving me a lecture on "why business should be my first priority" or some republican nonsense and being a real chode about it. I ended up giving him friday because I just didn't want to deal with going back to collect the rest.

But one of those is enough.
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Old 04-19-2017, 10:46 PM   #18
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Many of my customers are elderly, or female. I can only imagine them attempting to remove valances, blinds and brackets, wall mounted televisions, desks with shelves screwed to the wall, etc. What I can't imagine is them hiring somebody else to do all this prior to my painting. I guess it could happen, but I am not going to count on it.

I just figure the cost for the time for me to deal with these painting obstacles, and include it in my bid. Do I like having to remove and remount these items? Heck no, but it is part of the job, and as others have said, demanding that these things are out of my way prior to painting would probably eliminate me from consideration as a painter for them. I think my ability and willingness to deal with this aspect is a selling point. And I have worked in homes where the homeowners attempted to remove things, and they caused more problems for me than time saved.
As soon as the TV doesn't work when you reinstall it, those old ladys will be wanting money knocked off the painting price. BTW - your insurance doesn't cover your TV blunder.

These women and old ladys have children. As I stated, I deal with furniture and window treatments. And guess what................... I do it free.
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Old 04-20-2017, 05:34 AM   #19
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A good site visit, and some consideration in your contract is absolutely half of this equation! For my part, I specify in the contract whether a space is unoccupied or occupied. If it is unoccupied, I ask for keyed access, and price accordingly. If it is occupied I ask for "reasonable access" 8AM-5PM Mon-Fri, with access to utilities (water, electric, and heat) -- and YES I have that in there for a reason - cheap customers who don't run heat and wonder why caulk cracks out!

If it is occupied, additionally, a site visit lets me get a handle on how many pieces of furniture are in a room. It's about an hour per room, with special consideration for big pieces like a piano or a TV mount or something that has to get dissasembled. And, no matter what, I always ask the customer, via contract (Client will move all pictures, personal, fragile, or electronic items.)

I put moving furniture in with Dust Control, and Post Construction cleanup. Definitely charge for it, account for it, but it's part of full service. (Division 1 "site conditions" for those who follow CSI)

But as for sending you away that is ****ty - even if you don't have an airtight contract - it's pretty inconsiderate. I hate that attitude, and I've occasionally run into people that want to abuse you. I definitely pick up on it, and would turn down work at this point. I had one guy hire me at T&M to skim coat a ceiling, which I had figured on two guys for a week. He kept bullying me to say whether I'd be done thursday or not, and eventually, feeling good about our progress, I told him we would. Well, when it came back to coming in on Friday, he beat me up on the price (pretended like he didn't understand that I was charging per man-hour, not per crew-hour for both of us. . . . even though it was clear in the agreement) and ultimately left the discussion unresolved for me to deal with his admitedly very sweet wife, but not before giving me a lecture on "why business should be my first priority" or some republican nonsense and being a real chode about it. I ended up giving him friday because I just didn't want to deal with going back to collect the rest.

But one of those is enough.
Just curious what is ( Republican Nonsense). ??
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Old 04-20-2017, 08:21 AM   #20
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Just curious what is ( Republican Nonsense). ??
The same thing as democrat nonsense.
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