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killed grass on an f-ing lead job

13K views 65 replies 30 participants last post by  Woody 
#1 ·
so, we started a lead job last week. I have trained my guy and I had to leave for the the afternoon, so he set up exterior and plasticed everthing off to start scraping 3 dormirs. the HO has a nice green lawn, right on the side of the house that faced the road. My job site sign is right there, with my new "Lead RRP certified contractor" added to it. I leave for two hours, and tell my guy that we need to be looking legit cuz we're right on the road, but try to cut big slits in the plastic, and only use the minimum amount of it. I come back and hour and a half later, lift up the plastic, and all the grass under it is completely dead and yellow. So now when people drive by and see my sign, theres a 20 ft dead patch of grass behind it. Im so pissed off. I know that there are 'ways around this', but not many practical ones. So just so you know, it dont take long to kill the grass. thanks so much elected officials:thumbsup:
 
#7 · (Edited)
Seriously, They have to know this is going to happen. Are we supposed to figure in the job price new sod also?
Not to mention ornamental gardens, banzai trees that have been lovingly pruned for 2 decades, Japanese maples, azaleas, rhododendrons, etc.

This plastic idea on exteriors is retarded. It seems to have been conceived with zero concept of paint prep procedure, and with very little common sense other than the commonly understood attribute of plastic sheeting which is that it can be used as a barrier.

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Capture the lead at the source, right when it is released from the surface.

That is the only sane solution.
 
#4 ·
When I brought this up in class, the instructor said to use “white” plastic - as it will reflect the sun away. Sounds like BS. The lawn will still overheat and die.

Additionally, all the homes I paint are surrounded by a maze of bushes, flowers, rocks, holes, landscape edging, stairs, sprinkler heads, lighting, and a million other things to trip on. Now Im suppose to cover all that in non-see-thru plastic, and walk around on it while carrying ladders and paint! :hammer: This is a complete joke, and totally unsafe.

Neighbor: How did you like your painter?
Customer: They were more expensive than the other bids, and they killed my flowers and lawn.


:thumbsup:
 
#5 ·
Yeah I was all ready to dive into this thing and now just think that I wont take on any of these jobs. Luckily my business has for some reason moved away from the older exterior jobs. I do a lot more interior and commercial now. I think now that you would have to be a company that specializes in these jobs in order to make money in it. Build a system and get the rep for doing this kind of work. I wouldnt mind being that guy in my area but for now I'm out.
 
#6 ·
I come back and hour and a half later, lift up the plastic, and all the grass under it is completely dead and yellow. So now when people drive by and see my sign, theres a 20 ft dead patch of grass behind it. Im so pissed off. I know that there are 'ways around this', but not many practical ones.
Sounds familiar:

Plastic is not the answer.

Plastic sheeting kills plants.

[edit]

Even if you only put plastic sheeting on the ground outside.

This is very difficult. Plastic sheeting doesn't like to go up over and around bushes. It doesn't like to go up over and around fences or handrails. Partial decks, freestanding garages etc.

:whistling2:
 
#10 ·
Sounds to me like the only solution to dealing with lead contamination is to bulldoze and start over.

Then again, bulldozing will create lead contamination --- burn it!!

I would figure burning isn't allowed for the same reason as heat guns aren't for stripping old paint.

What do I know though >.<



Just can't win
 
#11 ·
I am with Capitalcity, until the EPA can come up with more intelligent regs such as capturing the lead at its source like Last Craftsman suggested, I also am steering clear of lead jobs.
I did lead abatement for several years in PA, what a pain in the as-, bunny suits, plastic, mask, paper work, blood work every few months, and constantly changing laws and regs. I think anything built before 1978 should be torn down so we can all get back to work without fear of the EPA enjoying our profits. Just my 2 cents.
 
#14 ·
I did lead abatement for several years in PA, what a pain in the as-, bunny suits, plastic, mask, paper work, blood work every few months, and constantly changing laws and regs.

I am with Capitalcity, until the EPA can come up with more intelligent regs such as capturing the lead at its source like Last Craftsman suggested,
I think they should pursue vacuum tools and or wet procedures for this purpose.

Also peel away, and or infra-red.

A containment shroud with a strong vacuum attached could be pressed against the wall and a glove fastened to the box could allow one to use a putty knife and or scraper to remove peeling paint. The entire surface in the containment area could even be dusted or washed before the containment shroud is moved to the next section. Preferably just dusted.

Realistically that would capture 99.99 % of any chips and particles.

It would certainly capture 10 times more lead than is captured by simply scraping and collecting the chips after they have fallen.

I think 99.99% is good enough. That is probably a dozen times better than what used to be allowed into environment.

True progress requires realistic goals.

I am not even sure how necessary a fully contained shroud is. I would think a very strong one by two foot vacuum right under the scraping area would still capture close to 99% of all of the chips.

The weight of the device could be suspended from the roof, operated from a scaffold, or perhaps raised from the ground on it's own boom.

Once the containment shroud was moved, the section could even be immediately primed to lock in any potential lead exposed to the environment.

Resulting paint chip surface variation could just be ignored ( we often did this anyway to eliminate the lead dust from feathering the edges, and this also lowers prep cost. Most of the time paint chips completely disappear when the house is viewed from the street ), or elastomeric patching compound could be applied in the area to either fill the chipped area completely, or create transitions that could then be lightly feathered out with a hepa equipped dustless sander.

Essentially you use the patching compound to create transitions inside the chip boundaries instead of sanding the transitions into several layers of paint.

This way when you are sanding, 99% of what you are sanding is patching compound, and you barely touch any paint, and the little amount that is touched is sucked up by the vacuum.

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With containment shrouds perhaps even mechanical means could be implemented at the surface and controlled from outside the shroud.

Certainly, simply removing loose chips creates far less small particles to deal with, but if the shroud was effective enough this could open up the possibility of using mechanical wire brushes inside the shroud that would be controlled from outside the shroud that could be pressed against the painted surface and very very quickly and easily remove loose paint.

This would actually DECREASE the difficulty of the labor for the operator since the paint removal was being done mechanically, and would easily offset any extra logistics associated with using the device.

Perhaps it could even cut scraping time in HALF. That would be something, to come with a method which captures 10 times more lead than old paint removal methods, but actually reduces the prep time and hence prep cost by half.

99.99% lead recaptured from the surface and half cost of removing paint with pre- RRP methods!

With the exception of detailed trim and difficult to reach areas, I think that is actually a realistic possibility.

It would mean contractors could tell consumers we are now recapturing 99.99% of all of the lead, and it now costs half as much to remove it as when standard procedure was to remove it manually.

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EPA if you read this: Just capture the lead BEFORE it flies all over the place.

It is absolutely ridiculous to create a huge tent on the side of a house, then scatter lead ALL OVER the inside of the tent, the scaffolding, the tools, and the workers and then try to dismantle all of that rigging without a bunch of lead flying into the environment.

The scaffolding and or ladders etc. are covered in it. How does that get cleaned? Obviously the scaffolding and other tools are not disposable. I wouldn't even consider that much plastic "disposable" but apparantly the EPA who is out to protect the environment thinks it is great for the environment to fill up landfills with all that plastic.
Aren't they smart?

:yes:

Seriously the sheer genius of the problem solving methods implemented by the RRP regulations is mind boggling.

Even if the job only requires spreading plastic on the ground, all of the benefits of of capturing the removed paint at the source right when it is released STILL APPLY.

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Obviously the tools for these procedures don't currently exist. But I am sure there are a wide variety of simple vacuum designs that would accomplish the goal of capturing the paint at the source right when it is removed from the surface.

It would be effective to have this part of the prepping procedure become it's own trade. It would create specialists, who have the training, special vacuum equipment, booms if necessary, specialized rigging if necessary, who could roll up and complete the job very quickly.

This would actually relieve a lot of stress for painters, because not many people enjoy the paint removal process with all of the associated logistics, ESPECIALLY now that RRP regulations are in full effect.

And painters who didn't want to relinquish this part of their market could become certified and obtain the necessary equipment, and do the paint removal on their own jobs, and also operate that division as an independent business.

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I also am steering clear of lead jobs.
That is our plan for the first year at least. Let other people work out the kinks.

I think anything built before 1978 should be torn down
:eek:

I love pre-1978 houses. Lets hope they figure out a reasonable procedure for removing paint from them.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Makes me think of a time 10 years ago. We were painting a tract community. 2 guys roll up and ask for work. One of them was 450 plus. I looked at him like ya right. But WTF I give most every one a chance. "You got one week" I said. Gave them the supplies and off I went. I followed back up at the end of the day, WOW the big dude had done double the work. Rolled and cut out 2 units. He worked the next 6 years for us.
 
#16 ·
When I read these threads, it reminds me why I don't get certified - I rather just let the 'storm' blow over. Hopefully there will be changes in the next couple of years that makes approaching this work more sane and less insane. What I don't get is if you come to a house that is pre-78 but doesn't have a lick of lead on it - does it still get treated as a lead job? Does it have to be documented by a lead certified contractor that there is no lead? Or is it assumed to be lead and treated as such even if you know there is nothing, as in a total residing done after '78.
 
#19 ·
I think there will be changes in approaching the work as CR's learn and become more experienced, but I see the laws getting more stringent as EPA seems to getting more like LSHR.
You can't even do an estimate on a pre 78 unless you are certified (unless the home has been cleared by an Inspector/Assessor). By being Certified, you are able to test and rule out Lead or not test and assume Lead.

Since scraping and chipping paint are separate activities from sanding, why couldn't a mesh tarp, http://www.eagleind.com/site383.php, be used to capture the large paint chips? This method would allow plants and grasses to breath while paint chips are contained. You just simply lay them down like drop cloths or plastic, then roll them up afterwards. You can then address the isolated sanding at the source as LC suggested.
Because like LC's idea, that is just too sensible!:rolleyes:
 
#17 ·
Since scraping and chipping paint are separate activities from sanding, why couldn't a mesh tarp, http://www.eagleind.com/site383.php, be used to capture the large paint chips? This method would allow plants and grasses to breath while paint chips are contained. You just simply lay them down like drop cloths or plastic, then roll them up afterwards. You can then address the isolated sanding at the source as LC suggested.
 
#33 ·
so, we started a lead job last week. I have trained my guy and I had to leave for the the afternoon, so he set up exterior and plasticed everthing off to start scraping 3 dormirs. the HO has a nice green lawn, right on the side of the house that faced the road. My job site sign is right there, with my new "Lead RRP certified contractor" added to it. I leave for two hours, and tell my guy that we need to be looking legit cuz we're right on the road, but try to cut big slits in the plastic, and only use the minimum amount of it. I come back and hour and a half later, lift up the plastic, and all the grass under it is completely dead and yellow. So now when people drive by and see my sign, theres a 20 ft dead patch of grass behind it. Im so pissed off. I know that there are 'ways around this', but not many practical ones. So just so you know, it dont take long to kill the grass. thanks so much elected officials:thumbsup:
Oh bummer, well you better pull your sign off the job.
 
#35 ·
In a situation like this.. it is always important to ask yourself.. WWMD?! Crossdressing and spelling your name in their lawn with lighter fluid must only be used as a last resort.. or you could just paint the dead lawn with what RCP posted.. sounds like a better alternative.. oh and not only telling the customer, but also writing it into the contract. :thumbsup:

Go get em tiger!
 
#51 · (Edited)
This from the Register
"(F) Covering the floor surface, including installed carpet, with taped-down plastic sheeting or other impermeable material in the work area 6 feet beyond the perimeter of surfaces undergoing renovation or a sufficient distance to contain the dust, whichever is greater (interiors) or covering the ground with plastic sheeting or other disposable impermeable material anchored to the building extending 10 feet beyond the perimeter of surfaces undergoing renovation or a sufficient distance to collect falling paint debris, whichever is greater, unless the property line prevents 10 feet of such ground covering, weighted down by heavy objects (exteriors)."

So it seems to reason, as long as you are taking the required steps to contain, what is underneath the plastic should not matter? What do you think?
 
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