New Construction: Do or don't - Paint Talk

DeanV · 10-05-2007, 08:14 PM

Talking to other painters (the best high end new construction guys I have worked with) and looking at my own numbers for my area, it seems like the best I can hope for in new construction is $35/ man hour, sometimes less, especially on the high end stuff. If this is accurate for my area, is it worth getting a crew together to do new construction. I have one painter in mind who would want $20/ hr and does not need any benefits. I figure with overhead, he would cost me around $27.00/hr.

It sounds like the consensus here is you can be a craftsman and do okay, or you can be a business man and hire a crew, but the quality tends to drop.

I find on new construction, it is hard to slow down a little to do a really good job. I would like a little more profit than that to work with, since it sounds like some jobs would be close.

What is your guys take on it?

**ProWallGuy** · 10-05-2007, 08:29 PM

I highly doubt any type of new construction will ever be a viable option for my business. I personally prefer to make a better profit elsewhere.

Tmrrptr · 10-05-2007, 09:17 PM

Dean, I think you might want to re-figure what your overhead will be.
r

DeanV · 10-05-2007, 09:40 PM

For overhead, in MI I have 13% workers comp, the 7% for FICA, 2.3% for unemployment, add in for accountant fees for payroll services, etc.

For the 30% I am looking at direct employment costs only that the government imposes. Tools, shop, supplies, etc I factor into my billing rate and into the material markup over what I pay for materials. If I am missing major items, please do let me know.

Dave Mac · 10-05-2007, 09:54 PM

I did it for many years, and will not ever work for a builder again!!!

You really also need to know how much it cost you to have your doors open.
that means how much per week does it take to just cover the cost of doing buisness, truck payment, ins, gas, phone, cell, office rent, advertising. so if you have one guy and it cost you 27 after w/c and taxes, you still have to cover these other expences, before seeing a profit, that leaves you with $8 dollars to covers all the other things. from their, you are the only one that can determine if its worth it.

DeanV · 10-05-2007, 10:08 PM

I do factor those things in, but currently while I am small I look at those from the perspective of with me only painting since my year round guy is only painting while he is looking for something else. I figure that the other overhead costs amount to around $15/hr for me if I am the only one working. If I do get the the point for running a larger crew, than I will have to look at figuring the rest of the overhead differently but it works for me this way right now.

NuView Painting · 10-06-2007, 11:43 AM

My thoughts on it being on both sides contractor and employee at times.. because when I go on a job that they want to pay me by the hour I still have to have W/C and Liability and I cover all my over head in $35 per hour I can go less in my area down to $32.38 the least but thats because I am a contractor getting paid by the hour.. Now when Im hiring people to work..if they come on the job with there own W/C an Liability I would sub work out to them and just take a lil cut off top.. then if Im gonna have employees with no over head and I have to supply tools Ins etc... depending on their experience what I pay....up to $20 max.. but thats a really big job...the smaller jobs Im the top paid and I hire helpers at $10 hr.. hope this helps

Tmrrptr · 10-06-2007, 11:10 PM

Oh Gosh.
I think I'd have to charge more than that just to discuss various products and techniques, or other options with an end client
r

NuView Painting · 10-07-2007, 03:25 PM

Ye but remember I live in Southern Louisiana and you live in Cali a very big difference in economy

Tmrrptr · 10-07-2007, 08:08 PM

You are correct Nu, everything here is more expensive than it should be.

I pass kobe pumps and oil tanks every day, but our gas prices are highest around!

Same with beef.
r

NuView Painting · 10-07-2007, 08:32 PM

Ye ...i see that on the new and fell for you guys on that issue.. I wish I could move there ...Im tired of this hole in the earth

**slickshift** · 10-08-2007, 08:19 AM

I have found new const. to be tough
Mostly it seems it seems you must use price to sell (cheap)
The Guys already have their Guys
And the only reason one would use you is if you are cheaper than their Guys, which of course means when you figure out you need more money, they'll dump you for someone else who's cheaper

If you can find some Guys who want a painter who'll get it done rather than be the cheapest, that can be a good place to be
As you say, it's not always the high end companies either

As for the figures, 27 sounds low
I see you figure in some of the stuff into the "billing rate"
If your billing rate can be 35 hour tops, what is your actual cost per hour?
I would suspect it is closer to $35 than you think once you figure in shop costs, trucks, gas, sprayers, electricity, sick time, vaca, time clocks, job tracking software, phone lines, med ins (if req.)
But perhaps it's a regional Cost Of Living thing (very high out here)

Tmrrptr · 10-08-2007, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NuView Painting

Ye ...i see that on the new and fell for you guys on that issue.. I wish I could move there ...Im tired of this hole in the earth

At least you've got good fishing down there if not working new construction or ???

Here, they are doing their best to shut down the ocean!
and after going out in my small boats, lake fishing is boring for me...

After being a couple boatlengths away from 40ft whales, nothing on a lake compares!

And then there was birds... Offshore in a bay there must have been 30-50k or more black sea birds swarming around and settling in a huge circle. It was intense! craziest feeling I ever had. spooky
They weren't eating, or mating, or??? just fling around and settling down as we sat in our boat in the middle of them.

And NOT a single DROPPING!

But if I can't go out fishing, tract work is fun...
It's like a mexican fiesta!
r

NuView Painting · 10-08-2007, 05:53 PM

LOL...I heard that, ye we do have some good game sports here..Im trying to get out of the GC work and gain more business maybe even touch on some commercial..

Tmrrptr · 10-09-2007, 09:44 PM

Most painters I know have a preference for commercial work.
We do small offices and such, but that's all.
Not set up for doing big stuff.

I would advise looking more toward commercial than tract work.
r

aaron61 · 10-27-2007, 08:05 PM

check out www.yourcostcenter.com it's a great program for figuring out exactly what YOU need to charge per man hour for YOU to Make what YOU need. I use a rate of $36.85.per man hour for a basic residential repaint.Commercial repaints I figure a bit more. However I never work by the hour always a price always a contract

jam · 10-29-2007, 07:54 PM

in my area all mexican crews are working for $20 a man hr as they're illegal and have few overhead costs and are happy to net $100 a day as new construction has come to a halt so they're flowing into rework

Dmax Consulting · 01-05-2010, 05:23 PM

I hate new construction. It is never worth the money. There is always some kind of problem. It could be other trades don't show up and the schedule gets messed up, other trades damage the walls and you have to do extra touch-ups, builders and general contractors want everything for a super low price, it may take months to get paid, they don't pay until you refuse to sign the lien release.

I only do new construction if I am friends with the builder or gc.

WisePainter · 01-07-2010, 04:14 PM

lol what new construction? Oh wait, 2007 was a good time for hacktacular companies to blow and go new construction...n/m.

Of course those companies are long gone and/or in total debt, but hey, it was fun while it lasted right folks?

Induspray · 01-07-2010, 10:15 PM

Everyone seems to be caught up in how much profit per man hour. Doesnt anyone make a margin on paint or other supplies such as lift equipment.

We make more on paint markup on some jobs than labour. If I have a sprayman spraying concrete walls and he cost me as an example $25 per hour with all benefits etc and I charge $40 per hour(rates vary city by city, could be $40 to $60), then in an 8 hour day he makes me $120 in labour markup. Now this same spray man can spray 5 gallons per hour or 40 gallons per day and I have a markup of $5 per gallon I would be making $25 per hour on paint which is $200 per day on paint markup.??