Priming Drywall for New Construction - Page 2 - Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum > Painting Forum > General Painting Discussion


Like Tree34Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-07-2016, 10:40 AM   #21
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Chicago near north suburbs
Posts: 460
Rewards Points: 960
Thanks: 304
Thanked 209 Times in 144 Posts
View futtyos's Photo Album My Photos
Default Did I mention Gardz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaintWM View Post
Would like to get a few different opinions on priming drywall for NC. Processes and methods for dusting, do you backroll or just spray, favorite spray tip etc., and favorite products.

Also, trying to come up with a general SF price. Obviously it's going to depend on texturing etc., but what is a good general target SF per hour range once masking, prep, and the actual priming process are included?

Thanks!
If I am painting new drywall that is not textured I might vacuum the walls first. Vacuuming is more thorough and less messy than sweeping with a brush and certainly less messy than blowing with a leaf blower, but it does expose pock marks. After I do this I apply at least one good coat of Gardz (2 coats if I am painting an eggshell or higher sheen). Gardz sealer is thin, about as thin as an acrylic floor sealer (it started its life as a concrete sealer reformulated by Scoth Paint into their product Draw-Tite, which I have yet to use) and looks, flows and smells like an acrylic floor sealer. The difference between Gardz sealer and white pigmented primers is that the thinner Gardz will soak into the new surface right through any leftover dust whereas the primer will not soak in nearly as much. The dust then becomes a permanent part of the wall rather than a layer of material waiting to cause adhesion failure to your primer. I put 2 coats of Gardz on one bedroom where the walls were new drywall without doing any dusting and the eggshell finish came out perfect. I also did not notice any pock marks. On another job I did that was drywalled, taped and mudded by the same drywaller, I vacuumed the ceiling that was skim coated first and found extensive pock marks which I then had to fill. I need to do more experimenting to actually find out if Gardz over unswept, unvac’d walls or ceilings will mix with the dust trapped in pock marks and leave a smooth surface that does not need another skim coat.

Painting over Gardz is like a dream. The Gardz seals the surface so that the water in the paint does not soak through, giving you time to work it and get a smooth coat. The lines from the edge of the roller will not set up because of water being soaked into the surface. On porous surfaces I have gone back to smooth out paint lines only to find that they have pretty much “set” and now will have to be sanded when dry.

Gardz may not be the cheapest or fastest solution to prepping new drywall for painting, but it is about the best product I have found for ensuring a fool-proof good job.

futtyos
futtyos is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to futtyos For This Useful Post:
chrisn (12-08-2016), Gymschu (12-08-2016), PaintWM (12-07-2016)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-07-2016, 10:47 AM   #22
Senior Member
 
CApainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
Posts: 11,286
Rewards Points: 804
Thanks: 10,666
Thanked 9,141 Times in 5,064 Posts
View CApainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I recently used Zinsser Drywall Primer on a level five bare wall. It actually sucked the sheen right out of the Regal Pearl Finish. But the Zinsser DP TDS did suggest using 123 primer in order to retain the natural sheen of a finish.

So, be careful of what you're using. Just because the paint goes on thick and covers well doesn't mean it's the preferred primer for a particular finish result. PVA actually does what it is intended to do. And that is, to be compatible with the chemistry of bare joint compound substrates while sealing the surface. It's not intended to look pretty, or be built up mil wise.
PaintWM likes this.
__________________
To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.-Aristotle (referenced from The PokerKid)
CApainter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2016, 12:06 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 148
Rewards Points: 296
Thanks: 23
Thanked 32 Times in 25 Posts
View Mr Smith's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by futtyos View Post
If I am painting new drywall that is not textured I might vacuum the walls first. Vacuuming is more thorough and less messy than sweeping with a brush and certainly less messy than blowing with a leaf blower, but it does expose pock marks. After I do this I apply at least one good coat of Gardz (2 coats if I am painting an eggshell or higher sheen). Gardz sealer is thin, about as thin as an acrylic floor sealer (it started its life as a concrete sealer reformulated by Scoth Paint into their product Draw-Tite, which I have yet to use) and looks, flows and smells like an acrylic floor sealer. The difference between Gardz sealer and white pigmented primers is that the thinner Gardz will soak into the new surface right through any leftover dust whereas the primer will not soak in nearly as much. The dust then becomes a permanent part of the wall rather than a layer of material waiting to cause adhesion failure to your primer. I put 2 coats of Gardz on one bedroom where the walls were new drywall without doing any dusting and the eggshell finish came out perfect. I also did not notice any pock marks. On another job I did that was drywalled, taped and mudded by the same drywaller, I vacuumed the ceiling that was skim coated first and found extensive pock marks which I then had to fill. I need to do more experimenting to actually find out if Gardz over unswept, unvac’d walls or ceilings will mix with the dust trapped in pock marks and leave a smooth surface that does not need another skim coat.

Painting over Gardz is like a dream. The Gardz seals the surface so that the water in the paint does not soak through, giving you time to work it and get a smooth coat. The lines from the edge of the roller will not set up because of water being soaked into the surface. On porous surfaces I have gone back to smooth out paint lines only to find that they have pretty much “set” and now will have to be sanded when dry.

Gardz may not be the cheapest or fastest solution to prepping new drywall for painting, but it is about the best product I have found for ensuring a fool-proof good job.

futtyos
I've never used Gardz for walls. I sometimes use it to seal 3M 2020 masking tape on baseboards. It acts just like Frog tape.

Is it messy stuff to work with? It looks pretty watery. Not sure i'd risk it over carpeting even though it is covered with a drop sheet. There is always a bit of shifting near the baseboards that could expose the carpet. I may try it on a dark feature wall that has a lot of angular exposed light. I can't find any way to get rid of lap lines on repaints. I've tried every trick in the book including acrylic paint conditioners. Even matte sheens don't work. That said I'm never there after it has had time to cure. I wonder if that stuff fades out over time?
Mr Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 12-07-2016, 09:11 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Auburn, Wa
Posts: 2,034
Rewards Points: 10
Thanks: 2,967
Thanked 1,398 Times in 821 Posts
View lilpaintchic's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by epretot View Post
I dust out corners and outlets. Prime and sand prior to and between finish coats.

Exceptionally dusty walls get a light pressure washing.
????? You gotta post a video pressure washing new drywall, I gotta see this one...
futtyos likes this.
lilpaintchic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2016, 09:43 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Jmayspaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: East TN
Posts: 3,812
Rewards Points: 4
Thanks: 1,778
Thanked 3,589 Times in 1,810 Posts
View Jmayspaint's Photo Album My Photos
Default Priming Drywall for New Construction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Smith View Post
I've never used Gardz for walls. I sometimes use it to seal 3M 2020 masking tape on baseboards. It acts just like Frog tape.



Is it messy stuff to work with? It looks pretty watery. Not sure i'd risk it over carpeting even though it is covered with a drop sheet. There is always a bit of shifting near the baseboards that could expose the carpet. I may try it on a dark feature wall that has a lot of angular exposed light. I can't find any way to get rid of lap lines on repaints. I've tried every trick in the book including acrylic paint conditioners. Even matte sheens don't work. That said I'm never there after it has had time to cure. I wonder if that stuff fades out over time?


Gardz can help with uniformity for sure. It seals so well the finish paint has maximum time to flow out during coalescence. Rather than the moisture of the finish paint being absorbed by a porous surface, it can evaporate into the air. This increases open time and better allows for maximum smoothness of an applied finish.

I'm curious if in your quest to try every trick in the book to eliminate lap lines you have tried rolling in one direction? I don't mean only rolling in one direction obviously, but making sure all finish strokes of the roller go in the same direction with the cage oriented the same way?

That's the trick that helped me eliminate inconstancies and flashing in rolled walls. A roller nap produces a slightly different texture on the up stroke than it does on the down stroke. That slightly different texture results in a sheen differential that is visibly apparent at certain angles.

Maybe you know this already, just thought to mention it. I finish all my rolling with a down stroke and the same cage orientation. It helps a great deal with flashing and lap lines whether the surface is sealed well or not. CA seems to think an upstroke finish works better, but he's kinda weird so who knows


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
CApainter and lilpaintchic like this.
Jmayspaint is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2016, 10:38 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
epretot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,855
Rewards Points: 2,258
Thanks: 666
Thanked 1,541 Times in 769 Posts
View epretot's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilpaintchic View Post
????? You gotta post a video pressure washing new drywall, I gotta see this one...
Satire.

It's what I do. Especially when we have topics about dust. As though painting over dust is ever ok.
lilpaintchic likes this.
__________________
www.pretotspainting.com
epretot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2016, 11:25 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Auburn, Wa
Posts: 2,034
Rewards Points: 10
Thanks: 2,967
Thanked 1,398 Times in 821 Posts
View lilpaintchic's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Dang it....I was hoping for some entertainment....things are pretty boring here these days...
Gymschu likes this.
lilpaintchic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2016, 11:35 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
woodcoyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,657
Rewards Points: 1,340
Thanks: 12
Thanked 733 Times in 495 Posts
View woodcoyote's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW Painter View Post
Im curious which high-build primer you recommend?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I like to use the Sherwin Williams Hi-Build.

They run it for us at a real good price. Plus it's a high build primer. What that means...is that it obviously seals the new drywall mud, but it's designed to go on thick enough to cover minor imperfections.

I like it because around here the mudders tend to leave a lot of scratches after sanding and the high build hides a lot of those marks.

I've used other high build primers from other companies and while they may have more % solids than SW, they tend also not to level out as well either. And with paint, you want it to level out, otherwise you'll get an orange peel looking result where you don't want it.

*Btw, that product is meant to be sprayed and not rolled. If your a rolling guy then you'll be better off with another product, but you won't have the advantages of any high-build products unless you plan on rolling 2 or 3 coats.
woodcoyote is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2016, 11:55 PM   #29
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 11
Rewards Points: 20
Thanks: 5
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
View PaintWM's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gymschu View Post
I use a push broom with soft, floppy bristles to knock off the dust. It works nice because I can screw it into an extension pole and reach high spots. This gets most of the dust off the walls. I know a lot of paint crews then use a vacuum to suck up the rest of the dust off the wall. I don't. After the primer dries, I then use my random orbital to sand the walls. Then I mop off the dust remaining from that process. Usually the walls are smooth and dust free after mopping then they are ready for paint. I'm old school and still roll rather than spray.

SF pricing is next to impossible to nail down. I'm in the heart of Appalachia where if you get $3 or $4 per SF, well, you are living like a king. In suburban and city areas, that SF price wouldn't put food on the table. I would ask other painters in your area to get a better idea. Also, pricing by the SF is usually a tough route to go. You will always be short-changing yourself. GC's want the LOWEST rates possible from their painters, so, beware.........
Good stuff. The point I guess is less about the SF price and more about the best way to quote and estimate.

I typically would get measurements on wall and ceiling SF, then multiply by my estimated SF completed per hour based on texture, ceiling height, etc. That would just be for time on the job. Other factors of course for material and overhead would be added on to the price.

So, just wondering what others find is the best way to come up with an estimate on how long the project will take?
PaintWM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2016, 11:27 AM   #30
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Chicago near north suburbs
Posts: 460
Rewards Points: 960
Thanks: 304
Thanked 209 Times in 144 Posts
View futtyos's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Smith View Post
I've never used Gardz for walls. I sometimes use it to seal 3M 2020 masking tape on baseboards. It acts just like Frog tape.

Is it messy stuff to work with? It looks pretty watery. Not sure i'd risk it over carpeting even though it is covered with a drop sheet. There is always a bit of shifting near the baseboards that could expose the carpet. I may try it on a dark feature wall that has a lot of angular exposed light. I can't find any way to get rid of lap lines on repaints. I've tried every trick in the book including acrylic paint conditioners. Even matte sheens don't work. That said I'm never there after it has had time to cure. I wonder if that stuff fades out over time?
Gardz can be messy to use, especially at first. For your first attempt at rolling Gardz, make sure that everything that needs to be dropped is fully dropped. Gardz is very thin compared to paint or primer and you will no doubt squeeze some (maybe a lot if you are not careful) out of the roller and possibly onto your face, so go slowly at first and don’t load too much Gardz into your roller.

My first experience with rolling out Gardz (other than with a mini-roller on damaged drywall after wallpaper removal) was on a skim coated ceiling. I started out with a thin napped roller cover and the materials was being sucked up so fast that I quickly searched around and found a ¾” nap cover. That worked very well for the very porous and absorbent skim coated ceiling.

I would start out with a 3/8” nap. Load the Gardz up, then squeeze out as much as you can by rolling it on the tray with pressure. Bring the roller gently to the ceiling or wall and roll very gently at first. On a wall I would start by rolling up. If you start rolling down you may squeeze the Gardz out and onto the floor. By rolling up first at least you will be squeezing it in front of the roller and onto the wall. If you find that you don’t have enough product in your roller, load up a little more next dip until you find just how much you can load your roller before it starts dripping or squeezing out too easily. After you get some of the Gardz out onto the surface, you can start applying more and more pressure to the roller.

You just need to try it out and get used to the viscosity until you can handle it without drips. Sometimes, if I haven’t used Gardz in a while, my first attempt at applying will result in a stream of Gardz coming down. Just be mindful of that and you will be okay.

It is definitely worth getting used to using Gardz, especially if you have a wall that will reflect a lot of light, even if you are painting it with flat paint as most flat paints today have a sheen to them.
Someone else here mentioned using 2 coats of Aura over bare drywall, so you might try that if using Aura. I have never had the chance yet to use Aura, but I do know that 2 coats of Gardz on a ceiling or wall will make you think that you have gone to painter’s heaven when you start applying the paint!

Good luck,

futtyos
Mr Smith likes this.
futtyos is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to futtyos For This Useful Post:
Jmayspaint (12-08-2016), Tonyg (12-08-2016), Wildbill7145 (12-08-2016)
Old 12-08-2016, 12:15 PM   #31
Senior Member
 
Jmayspaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: East TN
Posts: 3,812
Rewards Points: 4
Thanks: 1,778
Thanked 3,589 Times in 1,810 Posts
View Jmayspaint's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Good advice above^^.
I like to use microfiber covers with Gardz. They hold more material and seem to be a little less prone to make a mess.

I agree that it's worth the time to get acquainted with applying Gardz.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
chrisn and lilpaintchic like this.
Jmayspaint is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jmayspaint For This Useful Post:
Gymschu (12-08-2016), Tonyg (12-08-2016)
Old 12-08-2016, 12:15 PM   #32
Senior Member
 
CApainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
Posts: 11,286
Rewards Points: 804
Thanks: 10,666
Thanked 9,141 Times in 5,064 Posts
View CApainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

In reference to futtyos' post, I had primed one wall with GARDZ on the same job I had experimented with the Zinsser Drywall Primer (Don't ask). What I discovered was where the sheen of the BM Regal Pearl was sucked out with the Zinsser DP, the Regal Pearl was way too shiny over the Gardz. Fortunately a second coat of the Pearl over everything evened it all out nicely, leaving the intended sheen.
__________________
To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.-Aristotle (referenced from The PokerKid)
CApainter is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to CApainter For This Useful Post:
Gough (12-08-2016), Gymschu (12-08-2016), Tonyg (12-08-2016)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Horizontal flashing on drywall PACman General Painting Discussion 27 07-26-2016 06:36 PM
New drywall primer gone bad justmom Surface Preparation and Application 2 03-14-2016 03:06 PM
New drywall primer gone bad justmom General Painting Discussion 26 03-12-2016 06:00 PM
Priming new drywall centralalbertapaint General Painting Discussion 25 01-11-2016 08:47 PM
Drywall Corner bead Repair- Video Product Review/Demo Sir Mixalot Surface Preparation and Application 33 09-07-2015 02:04 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | ElectricianTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com