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Old 06-06-2016, 08:43 PM   #1
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Default Smoke Odor Removal?

Is BIN the best product to remove the smell of smoke out of a house? If not what. Do I need to do or what do I need to apply?
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Old 06-06-2016, 09:00 PM   #2
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Is BIN the best product to remove the smell of smoke out of a house? If not what. Do I need to do or what do I need to apply?
Long time no see.

BIN or Killz. I don't think you can spray kills though.
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Old 06-06-2016, 09:03 PM   #3
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It's been my experience that it is the best for that job. I recently tried BIN's synthetic shellac primer and it just didn't perform as well. Actually had to go over the synthetic with regular BIN just to complete the job. But, to be fair, the condition of the house I was working on was pretty terrible; twenty plus years with a chain smoker confined to a wheelchair who rarely left the place.
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Old 06-06-2016, 09:08 PM   #4
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We used to use a lot of kilz on burnouts. Works well. Bin is favored by many though for a variety of reasons. One of which is that the smell dissapates faster.
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Old 06-06-2016, 09:09 PM   #5
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Long time no see.

BIN or Killz. I don't think you can spray kills though.
And yes, you can spray kilz. Suit up, you'll need it.
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Old 06-06-2016, 09:23 PM   #6
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We used to use a lot of kilz on burnouts. Works well. Bin is favored by many though for a variety of reasons. One of which is that the smell dissapates faster.
And dries in 15 mins
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Old 06-06-2016, 10:03 PM   #7
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XIM restores and SW synthetic shellac are great products with the same sealing performance as BIN but better hide at a better price. Only down side is the insane solvent oder, def need ventilation. Maybe even a respirator!


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Old 06-06-2016, 10:55 PM   #8
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XIM restores and SW synthetic shellac are great products with the same sealing performance as BIN but better hide at a better price. Only down side is the insane solvent oder, def need ventilation. Maybe even a respirator!


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Maybe?:what:
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Old 06-06-2016, 11:16 PM   #9
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XIM restores and SW synthetic shellac are great products with the same sealing performance as BIN but better hide at a better price. Only down side is the insane solvent oder, def need ventilation. Maybe even a respirator!


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You need a respirator with BIN, and BIN 2 as well
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Old 06-06-2016, 11:31 PM   #10
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Default Smoke smell abatement

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Originally Posted by ElTacoPaco View Post
Is BIN the best product to remove the smell of smoke out of a house? If not what. Do I need to do or what do I need to apply?
I don't believe any primer will remove the smell of smoke, just cover it over. The less permeable the primer is to gas molecules, the better it will cover or mask the odor. BIN appears to have one of the lowest premeablity ratings according to Erik at Rustoleum (Zinsser is owned by Rustoleum). I will reprint Erik's 2 emails to me below:

The Gardz will not do well on odors because its permeability rating is actually considerably higher than most of our other products. To be a true vapor barrier, the permeability rating of a product must be 0. Our BIN primer, which is our best stain and odor blocking product ranges from .8-1.4 depending on the shellac crop. This product is designed to block odors and is one of the best in the industry. The Gardz product has a perm rating of 26. If there is any sort of odor, it will bleed right through.


Cover stain has a perm rating of 3 to 4 depending on the version used. There are multiple versions depending on the area of the country and the clean air laws in that area. Unfortunately the perm rating isn't listed on most consumer products since we do not advertise them as a vapor barrier product and the average consumer would not take that type of information into consideration. The BIN primer is going to be the best when it comes to odor, the Cover Stain will block them to some degree, the Gardz more than likely will not show a significant difference at all.

IMO, if you want to cut down on the odor, I would clean the smoke affected areas with chemicals designed to do that, then prime over it. I just did a job where I cleaned first, using such chemicals, then primed 2 coats with Kilz Max, which is touted as being able to cover and seal in odors.

Everyone who was familiar with the cigarette smell in the house made comments that they could no longer smell any cigarette smoke. I really wanted to be sure the smell was gone because the house was being sold and a lot of the work I do is getting homes ready for sale.

Others here have far more experience than I in this area and many recommend either BIN or Cover Stain. I would think that the more smoke odor chemicals you can remove by cleaning before priming, the less smoke odor gas molecules there will be to sneak past the primer. And sneaky gas molecules can stink!

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Old 06-07-2016, 12:18 AM   #11
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We are painters, NOT cleaners.
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Old 06-07-2016, 12:19 AM   #12
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I would choose BIN.
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Old 06-07-2016, 12:36 AM   #13
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When the OP wrote "remove the smell of smoke ", I took that to mean "make it not stink" rather than literally remove it. I think everything we use just covers it over or seals it in.
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Old 06-07-2016, 02:18 AM   #14
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Default Multi-tasking

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We are painters, NOT cleaners.
Driftweed, are you not able to clean when it is called for? Most primers, sealers, paints, and other waterborne or oil based finishes that painters commonly apply call for a clean surface to apply the product to. Would that not make cleaning a part of painting, at least when it is called for? Would you just slap any old primer or paint over candle wax spilled against a wall?

On the cigarette smoke odor job I just did, several areas were not to be painted. One bedroom and the kitchen were wallpapered and the owner did not want the paper removed. I had no choice but to clean the wallpaper with something that would get the most cigarette odor out. I was also able to clean the kitchen ceiling without priming over it as it was a semi-gloss finish and cleaned up without any odor left.

I am sure that some jobs have to be bid without any cleaning, otherwise the work will go to someone who will do it that way. Perhaps I will get a job like that in the future. When I sold the job I did I explained to the owners that cleaning first would go a long way to getting rid of the cigarette odor and it did. They wanted to be able to sell the house without any cigarette odor in it and I was able to give them what they wanted.

The last few days I have been on my hands and knees scraping old dirty caulk out of 2 bathrooms and recaulking them. No painting involved at all, but I am getting paid nonetheless. And getting some practice on caulking.

There is a lot of money out there to be made if you know how to do the work. The more types of work you know how to do, the more you can help your customers.

If you are good enough at just painting to keep busy all the time with just that, great! You did a very nice job on your nicotine unit, so I do listen to what you say.

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Old 06-07-2016, 04:57 AM   #15
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Driftweed, are you not able to clean when it is called for? Most primers, sealers, paints, and other waterborne or oil based finishes that painters commonly apply call for a clean surface to apply the product to. Would that not make cleaning a part of painting, at least when it is called for? Would you just slap any old primer or paint over candle wax spilled against a wall?

On the cigarette smoke odor job I just did, several areas were not to be painted. One bedroom and the kitchen were wallpapered and the owner did not want the paper removed. I had no choice but to clean the wallpaper with something that would get the most cigarette odor out. I was also able to clean the kitchen ceiling without priming over it as it was a semi-gloss finish and cleaned up without any odor left.

I am sure that some jobs have to be bid without any cleaning, otherwise the work will go to someone who will do it that way. Perhaps I will get a job like that in the future. When I sold the job I did I explained to the owners that cleaning first would go a long way to getting rid of the cigarette odor and it did. They wanted to be able to sell the house without any cigarette odor in it and I was able to give them what they wanted.

The last few days I have been on my hands and knees scraping old dirty caulk out of 2 bathrooms and recaulking them. No painting involved at all, but I am getting paid nonetheless. And getting some practice on caulking.

There is a lot of money out there to be made if you know how to do the work. The more types of work you know how to do, the more you can help your customers.

If you are good enough at just painting to keep busy all the time with just that, great! You did a very nice job on your nicotine unit, so I do listen to what you say.

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Old 06-07-2016, 08:06 AM   #16
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I only clean when absolutely necessary. If there is a primer available that will adhere to the surface without cleaning, I will not clean.

With nicotine, shellac is the solution there. Crayola or ink pens or sharpies, oil primer does the trick. Blood, fecal matter, human waste (boogers, vomit, etc...) gets oil primed. At best I will give a quick scrape with a disposable mudd knife to knock down the texture, but no way in the world am I putting my health at risk scrubbing human waste, it's getting primed.

IF a job calls for more than a brief, minor cleaning I sub it out to cleaners. For alot of stuff though, primer is available to skip that step.
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Old 06-07-2016, 08:12 AM   #17
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When I started out 5 years ago, I was a handyman. The best advice I ever got was to specialize. So I narrowed it down to drywall repairs, power washing, and painting. In the last 3 years, I have narrowed it down further by dropping drywall work, then dropping power washing.

If my customers need that stuff, I either refer or sub it. I am still the man in my customers eyes.

Ask yourself this: can someone do it better, faster than me?

If yes, stop doing that service. Specialize.
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Old 06-07-2016, 09:26 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futtyos View Post
Driftweed, are you not able to clean when it is called for? Most primers, sealers, paints, and other waterborne or oil based finishes that painters commonly apply call for a clean surface to apply the product to. Would that not make cleaning a part of painting, at least when it is called for? Would you just slap any old primer or paint over candle wax spilled against a wall?

On the cigarette smoke odor job I just did, several areas were not to be painted. One bedroom and the kitchen were wallpapered and the owner did not want the paper removed. I had no choice but to clean the wallpaper with something that would get the most cigarette odor out. I was also able to clean the kitchen ceiling without priming over it as it was a semi-gloss finish and cleaned up without any odor left.

I am sure that some jobs have to be bid without any cleaning, otherwise the work will go to someone who will do it that way. Perhaps I will get a job like that in the future. When I sold the job I did I explained to the owners that cleaning first would go a long way to getting rid of the cigarette odor and it did. They wanted to be able to sell the house without any cigarette odor in it and I was able to give them what they wanted.

The last few days I have been on my hands and knees scraping old dirty caulk out of 2 bathrooms and recaulking them. No painting involved at all, but I am getting paid nonetheless. And getting some practice on caulking.

There is a lot of money out there to be made if you know how to do the work. The more types of work you know how to do, the more you can help your customers.

If you are good enough at just painting to keep busy all the time with just that, great! You did a very nice job on your nicotine unit, so I do listen to what you say.

futtyos
In fire restoration we call "cleaning" demo. All the framework, rafters and flooring that remains needs to be sealed thoroughly prior to any other trades moving forward. Kilz, Coverstain or Bin will work. State farm spec'd kilz for our work. But this was 10 year ago, too.
Any of those products works very well over. Cigarette smoke also without using chemical means to "clean". Sure you can smear it around if ya want but it's a waste of time in my opinion. Crack the bucket and seal that crap up.
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Old 06-07-2016, 09:50 AM   #19
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In fire restoration we call "cleaning" demo. All the framework, rafters and flooring that remains needs to be sealed thoroughly prior to any other trades moving forward. Kilz, Coverstain or Bin will work. State farm spec'd kilz for our work. But this was 10 year ago, too.
Any of those products works very well over. Cigarette smoke also without using chemical means to "clean". Sure you can smear it around if ya want but it's a waste of time in my opinion. Crack the bucket and seal that crap up.
Service master specs any BIN product, and Belfor specs a bright white with Coverstain
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Old 06-07-2016, 11:19 AM   #20
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