What we have here... - Paint Talk

Wolfgang · 02-08-2010, 07:23 AM

...well I'm not quite sure.

Seems we've hit a bit of stagnation here. Where to buy tape? Learning to caulk? How to paint pocket doors? And numerous more threads along the same lines.

Starting to sound like a DIY site.

I dont know, but my thinking is if you dont even have the basics down, how can you call yourself a "professional"? And these are all basic tasks / knowledge that anyone should have down within the first 30-90 days of picking up a brush....and 90 days may well be pushing the envelope.

Heck, within the first 30 days I was teaching a helper how to stain and spray lacquer. Within 60, I could turn her loose on said project with great results.

Tends to make a person wonder

.

y.painting · 02-08-2010, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfgang

...Learning to caulk?

No, no, no. It was about "laying a perfect bead of caulk"

**Workaholic** · 02-08-2010, 08:43 AM

Those are definitly not the things that will make or break my business that is for sure. These questions come in cycles. We have had a rush of new start up contractors here lately.

capitalcity painting · 02-08-2010, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfgang

...well I'm not quite sure.

Seems we've hit a bit of stagnation here. Where to buy tape? Learning to caulk? How to paint pocket doors? And numerous more threads along the same lines.

Starting to sound like a DIY site.

I dont know, but my thinking is if you dont even have the basics down, how can you call yourself a "professional"? And these are all basic tasks / knowledge that anyone should have down within the first 30-90 days of picking up a brush....and 90 days may well be pushing the envelope.

Heck, within the first 30 days I was teaching a helper how to stain and spray lacquer. Within 60, I could turn her loose on said project with great results.

Tends to make a person wonder

.

I definitely see your point and a lot of these threads are a little absurd to be asking but there are also a lot of different parts of our field. If someone did mostly repaints then they started new construction I can see asking some basic sprayer questions or the quickest and best way to caulk as there is a lot more of it. Going from Residential to Commercial, Interior or Exterior, etc. For instance there is very little stained wood around here, If I ran across a new construction house around here that had it I may have some basic questions about how to go about it. Having said that the threads you are referring to dont seem like the good contractor venturing into other aspects of our trade they seem like laid off lets start painting types and I wonder sometimes why we help them at all.

bikerboy · 02-08-2010, 09:14 AM

We all had to start from square one. We were all newbies at one time, give em some slack.

KEEGS · 02-08-2010, 09:58 AM

Okay, valid points from all of the posts, and I dont argue them, but...I grew up in a painting family, my father and his crew taught me everything, and for that I am greatful, and always gave me a great respect for their professionalism. So, I can not help but wonder why it would be so terrible that someone who never had the same benefit, might humble themselves, and ask a question about something they don't know? If someone is truly trying to get in the game, then I say ASK. I stay positive and optimistic as much as possible, I have a love for great humor, and I am good to people...it is one of the key elements of the success of my business.

What I am saying here is if a thread is started and you think it is "beneath you" and/or your great wisdom, how about just move on to the next thread? And...if it is a DIY, well then, they probably still would not have a clue what half of the responses even mean.

I have had a brush in my hand since 1977, and I am 44...do the math. I have however, only been a member here for about three months, but I can tell you that from most of what I have read so far, I feel as though I have stumbled across another invaluable resource for my business. I say keep an open mind...if I was new to the biz and came on this site and read THIS post first, I would probably exit and google the next site looking for perhaps, a bunch of open minded, professional painting contractors who were willing to exchange information in hopes of becoming a true professional.

No disrespect intended...just my two cents.

Wolfgang · 02-08-2010, 10:44 AM

Is anyone getting the point here? 1. If you dont have the basic knowledge and skills, how do you call yourself a professional? 2. How can you professionally complete a job? 3. How do you justify calling yourself a professional paint contractor?

I dont mind helping out the new guys at all, and I think I have here and in my area. I've trained more than my share over the years and have even set up a few in business. But we're getting hit with such basic questions as you would find in the DIY forum, that it seems to me that I would have to question what it projects as a representation of our trade....but then I've made alot of money over the years fixing what other "professionals" have done.

I guess it's just a matter of what your personal standards are...

capitalcity painting · 02-08-2010, 10:50 AM

I get what your saying, this is a site for professional paint contractors to help each other out. Why are we helping people that have no business being in business. Wolf is saying if you dont know how to caulk then go work for a painting company and learn dont ask while your in the middle of a job that should of went to a professional. We all get upset when we see the new guys that cant paint getting the jobs we wanted to get in our own cities but were supposed to get on here and coach these guys up?

vermontpainter · 02-08-2010, 10:51 AM

Wolf

Thats the two edged sword that these forums are. Its the nature of a community like this to be obliged to take new members at their "word" that they are professional painters.

The conundrum is that for every thread where members are giving advice on rolling, caulking, spraying, ladder setups, seo, etc there is an equal and opposite thread by someone who feels they just got beat on an estimate by a new contractor who has no business being in business.

Its not something that can be changed in the context of an internet public community.

KEEGS · 02-08-2010, 11:09 AM

Touche' VTPAINTER! All extremely valid, tactful points. And WOLF, I agree 100%, nothing sucks worse than fixing another "Professional Painter's" disaster.

**ProWallGuy** · 02-08-2010, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KEEGS

nothing sucks worse than fixing another "Professional Painter's" disaster.

I would have to disagree there. I like those jobs. After getting that call, it is an easy sell, anything I do will look "good", and I can pretty much name my price.

CApainter · 02-08-2010, 11:34 AM

I get Wolfgang's point. Too often a self proclaimed painting contractor asks a basic question like how to position a ladder, or how to caulk. This leaves many members wondering how it is that this person is actually competing with other professional contractors, and seemingly getting the jobs! It's insulting to think that experience and other measurable qualifications are not enough to distinquish ourselves from your average unemployed painter, or entrepreneurs looking for a quick and easy start up into business.

If more members revealed themselves as "painters" looking for good advice, rather then marketing saavy "contractors" (with pretty web sites), we'd be more then happy to give them answers to basic questions, and we have.

bikerboy · 02-08-2010, 11:59 AM

Maybe I am getting soft in my later years.

The way I see it is there are plenty of so called pros doing things incorrectly every day. Some of them for years.

Maybe they don't care.

Might be a newbie who worked for the hack who has been doing it wrong all those years.

Could be working with a group of painters who won't show him the correct way because they figure he should know it already because he is a "pro".

How do we know?

Why not offer help and possibly lift up the standards of the paint industry one newbie at a time?

**daArch** · 02-08-2010, 12:13 PM

Couple of thoughts:

I do agree that some basic questions like how to clean a roller, how to open a can of paint, which end of the brush to use, etc, do point to a total noob who should get a job painting road lines before considering being called a professional painter.

However, it's better than other conversations this time of year usually brings

AND sometimes a poster maybe be wondering if someone else has found a BETTER way to apply a perfect caulk bead or an EASIER way to paint two pocket doors. Usually if it isn't obvious we are dealing with a DIY'er or newbie hack'n'fraud, I look at these questions as someone looking for tips on how to IMPROVE the skills one already has.

When we work on a crew, who doesn't watch another out of the corner of his eye to see if you can pick up a little tip here and there? We all are always looking for ways to refine our skills - - at least I am.

On a wallpaper forum recently there was a discussion about trimming. Who does free hand, who uses a trim guide, and who uses artist pallet knives for some tricky returns. Now people are opining about which blades are sharper/better. Basic stuff? Or just trying to get better?

Rcon · 02-08-2010, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bikerboy

Why not offer help and possibly lift up the standards of the paint industry one newbie at a time?

Wolfgang · 02-08-2010, 01:01 PM

It's never been a question of helping anybody out with answers. It's a questions of the proficiency of some in the painting trade. My thoughts are; if they're asking these type of questions I would hesitate to think that maybe they didnt have the knowledge to acquire the proper insurance/licensing, pay the proper WC/taxes, etc..

I'm not saying that that is the case with members asking these questions.

How many threads have been written about hacks, lost jobs, outrageous underbidding, etc.? How many threads have been written about having to fix these jobs? Who are and where do the people who do these jobs come from? Something to think about.

The thing is, is that I agree with each of you who voiced your "objections" to my original post. As Bill stated; it's better conversation than some threads this time of year...besides, the forum needed something to wake it up. I know I'm getting old, and maybe a little softer also like Biker, and I also know that I will always be willing to help out a fellow pro...and those serious about the trade, but I have to admit some of these just make me shake my head.

Dannyj · 02-08-2010, 01:15 PM

Peace and love everybody!

Knowledge is best when shared. I'd consider myself a newbie, only been in the biz a couple of years. I think i'll be on here alot over the next few (hopefully more!!!) years picking things up. I'l be honest, yes i am here to get info, help, advice, tips. I'll always be grateful to anyone who passes these on and i hope someday in the future i'll be able again to pass them on, the whole pay it forward thing!
I apologise in advance if some of my questions/comments seem a little stupid or naive but i'll keep asking because alot of stuff is new to me, onesided pocket doors for one

!
I've been training Kickboxing/Thaiboxing/Martial arts my whole life, i talk to people who say 'oh yeah i do kickboxing' and they don't even have a stance! Do i make fun/take the piss, no i don't, i ask them if they fancy a session and then try and show/teach them the correct ways as best i can, even better if they ask for help because it means they're willing to learn to make themselves better! I was always taught that thats what you do????? Knowledge is best when shared!
Thanks for reading my rant!

johnpaint · 02-08-2010, 01:18 PM

Most of us feel your pain and understand why you would get upset about these kind of questions. They can be telling to ask. Wolf don't feel you have to defend yourself, because most of the pros on here know where your coming from.With that being said I do, and will in the future ask some dumb questions, so beware.

CApainter · 02-08-2010, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dannyj

Peace and love everybody!

Knowledge is best when shared. I'd consider myself a newbie, only been in the biz a couple of years. I think i'll be on here alot over the next few (hopefully more!!!) years picking things up. I'l be honest, yes i am here to get info, help, advice, tips. I'll always be grateful to anyone who passes these on and i hope someday in the future i'll be able again to pass them on, the whole pay it forward thing!
I apologise in advance if some of my questions/comments seem a little stupid or naive but i'll keep asking because alot of stuff is new to me, onesided pocket doors for one

!
I've been training Kickboxing/Thaiboxing/Martial arts my whole life, i talk to people who say 'oh yeah i do kickboxing' and they don't even have a stance! Do i make fun/take the piss, no i don't, i ask them if they fancy a session and then try and show/teach them the correct ways as best i can, even better if they ask for help because it means they're willing to learn to make themselves better! I was always taught that thats what you do????? Knowledge is best when shared!
Thanks for reading my rant!

How would you feel if the guy claiming to know martial arts has his own studio in in your area? Is it fair to the consumer that he goes to you for proper technique when he is marketing himself as a black belt?

Dannyj · 02-08-2010, 02:10 PM

Fair comment CA. I've seen that situation quite a few times, you know what happens... in the end everybody catches on that the guy doesn't know what he's talking about, his classes are rubbish, results aren't what they should be etc etc, and he goes out of business.
Yes it is unfair to the consumer, but maybe the guy is offering really cheap classes and people always want to save a buck! If the guy came to me for technique hints/help i'd give them to him, if he wasn't a ****! If he genuinely wanted to be better why not help him.. if you have the time?
There will always be people teaching/contracting that shouldn't be but in the end if it's only going to to take 5 minutes out of your day to write a reply/demonstrate something that could make them better, why not? If not just ignore them... just keep smiling

!