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Old 04-11-2017, 05:03 PM   #1
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Default Trump looking to cut EPA's RRP

I am not trying to start a political argument just posting an article that details the administrations plans for the EPA and how it directly affects us.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.e966cad1cb2b

For what it is worth. I think this is a mistake.
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:23 PM   #2
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I am not trying to start a political argument just posting an article that details the administrations plans for the EPA and how it directly affects us.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.e966cad1cb2b

For what it is worth. I think this is a mistake.
I'm all for it. It's a state issue, if you like it lobby your state to institute a law regarding lead.

One of the biggest problems with doing this on the federal level is lack of oversight. Next to know one gets caught doing jobs without certification meanwhile my price is inflated complying with the rules (some of which are overboard imho). If the states ran it they'd have much more oversight making the law more effective. Look at CD, he has his local lead inspector on speed dial.

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Old 04-11-2017, 10:18 PM   #3
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I don't have a problem with some lead base rules but I agree with Briggs in that some of them are over zealous. I think the fines are way out of wack with reality.
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:46 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Roamer View Post
I am not trying to start a political argument just posting an article that details the administrations plans for the EPA and how it directly affects us.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.e966cad1cb2b

For what it is worth. I think this is a mistake.
I am grateful for the information I learned from the whole RRP regulation. Whenever I can, I take the opportunity to share the info and/or concerns to people that have to deal with lead paint in their homes, and newer or uninformed contractors/painters.
I think it is a sad thing that our P.I.C. is pulling. Trying to mislead everybody for corporate and shareholder interests. He's defunding everything to the point that there will be no agencies able to look after the interests of the people, the citizens of our country.
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:44 AM   #5
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I THINK this just got political
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Old 04-12-2017, 08:51 AM   #6
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I would prefer to keep this thread here so more can view it and respond but don't see how it can't be a political discussion since it's about the administration's regulation of the law rather than how to deal with lead paint issues on the job. I will allow it to stay a bit longer to see if I can be proved wrong but don't be surprised to see it get moved to the Outhouse sub-forum.
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:20 AM   #7
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It won't let me edit it now. Anyways, remember to wear your dustmask when sanding, and sweep up your mess when done working.
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:48 AM   #8
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Here's a thought, just keep comments about the Democrats and Republicans and who is to blame for what out of the discussion. Should be fine to debate whether the federal government (regardless of the administration) or only state governments should be involved in regulating lead contamination, and to what degree.
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:47 PM   #9
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As it is currently the financial responsibility for dealing with lead is not where it should in the industry. The companies that made these products have no burden while HO and contractors bear it all. I'd like to see that changed. Wishful thinking.
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:56 PM   #10
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As it is currently the financial responsibility for dealing with lead is not where it should in the industry. The companies that made these products have no burden while HO and contractors bear it all. I'd like to see that changed. Wishful thinking.
I hear so many say that. Remember back when Lead paint was on the market it was the only paint around and no one had any clue as to what it would be like with future regulations. I don't agree with the feds or states holding Lead paint mfg's liable for what was the technology or best product at that time.

Soon this will be about oil based paints and how bad they are, it will start years from now as technology advances and EPA changes their views on oil.
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Old 04-12-2017, 01:01 PM   #11
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I'm all for it. It's a state issue, if you like it lobby your state to institute a law regarding lead.

One of the biggest problems with doing this on the federal level is lack of oversight. Next to know one gets caught doing jobs without certification meanwhile my price is inflated complying with the rules (some of which are overboard imho). If the states ran it they'd have much more oversight making the law more effective. Look at CD, he has his local lead inspector on speed dial.

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I 100% agree that each state should be responsible for RRP. Maybe Federal guidelines for every state to follow. In Massachusetts we have our own rules to follow which some differ from the EPA. I don't know if you remember but I checked into becoming an inspector for the state. The problem was because of EPA rules MA couldn't figure out exactly how to train state inspectors.

Having the local inspectors number on hand is great. MA doesn't update their website and any rule changes I find out about. Every RRP job we do I call him to make sure no new rules are in effect.

Our inspector is pretty easy going the first time unless their are kids in the house without windows covered. He nails people for that other wise even a fine he tries to get the lowest the state allows.
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Old 04-12-2017, 09:17 PM   #12
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I hear so many say that. Remember back when Lead paint was on the market it was the only paint around and no one had any clue as to what it would be like with future regulations. I don't agree with the feds or states holding Lead paint mfg's liable for what was the technology or best product at that time.

Soon this will be about oil based paints and how bad they are, it will start years from now as technology advances and EPA changes their views on oil.
The lead companies knew it was insanely toxic as early as the mid-sixties and waged a decades-long "lead isn't as bad as those damned scientists want you to think it is" campaign to protect their profits. Petroleum products are nowhere near as toxic to humans as lead, so while it's being used less, it's not a fair comparison at all. It was never the best product and the manufacturers knew it.

Whoever's to blame, we're stuck with it and it's something contractors and HOs have to deal with appropriately. I don't think state-level control is good since it's just as bad in Arkansas as it is in California for people and there doesn't need to be 50 sets of regulations on how to deal with it.
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Old 04-12-2017, 09:49 PM   #13
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Whoever's to blame, we're stuck with it and it's something contractors and HOs have to deal with appropriately. I don't think state-level control is good since it's just as bad in Arkansas as it is in California for people and there doesn't need to be 50 sets of regulations on how to deal with it.
Do you think that there should be less regulations in place to protect me as a worker when my boss tells me to go sand lead paint, clean, prep and paint, etc., but just use all the canvas drops, no lead filtering dust extractors, no real rrp practices to speak of?
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Old 04-13-2017, 03:14 AM   #14
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Do you think that there should be less regulations in place to protect me as a worker when my boss tells me to go sand lead paint, clean, prep and paint, etc., but just use all the canvas drops, no lead filtering dust extractors, no real rrp practices to speak of?
I don't think your "boss" has any right to put your personal safety at risk
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Old 04-13-2017, 04:28 AM   #15
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Do you think that there should be less regulations in place to protect me as a worker when my boss tells me to go sand lead paint, clean, prep and paint, etc., but just use all the canvas drops, no lead filtering dust extractors, no real rrp practices to speak of?
There absolutely need to be protections and RRP programs in place at the federal level to protect workers. Allowing states to dictate their own requirements would immediately lead to them being gutted for many states. I'm all for combing through the existing rules and requirements to make sure they're sensible, but business owners need to accept that lead cleanup is expensive.
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Old 04-13-2017, 06:03 AM   #16
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Do you think that there should be less regulations in place to protect me as a worker when my boss tells me to go sand lead paint, clean, prep and paint, etc., but just use all the canvas drops, no lead filtering dust extractors, no real rrp practices to speak of?
It's OSHA that protects workers. EPA RRP does have specifics on that, they focus on the environment and the occupants.
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Old 04-13-2017, 06:13 AM   #17
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I hear so many say that. Remember back when Lead paint was on the market it was the only paint around and no one had any clue as to what it would be like with future regulations. I don't agree with the feds or states holding Lead paint mfg's liable for what was the technology or best product at that time.

Soon this will be about oil based paints and how bad they are, it will start years from now as technology advances and EPA changes their views on oil.
The lead companies knew it was insanely toxic as early as the mid-sixties and waged a decades-long "lead isn't as bad as those damned scientists want you to think it is" campaign to protect their profits. Petroleum products are nowhere near as toxic to humans as lead, so while it's being used less, it's not a fair comparison at all. It was never the best product and the manufacturers knew it.

Whoever's to blame, we're stuck with it and it's something contractors and HOs have to deal with appropriately. I don't think state-level control is good since it's just as bad in Arkansas as it is in California for people and there doesn't need to be 50 sets of regulations on how to deal with it.
They knew in the 60's like you said but lead paint has been around a lot longer.
We need the regulations. I don't think there is enough.

We are stuck dealing with it and it stinks. We just passed on an rrp job due to I'm done with them. Pick and choose what we will take on.
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Old 04-13-2017, 06:20 AM   #18
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I hear so many say that. Remember back when Lead paint was on the market it was the only paint around and no one had any clue as to what it would be like with future regulations. I don't agree with the feds or states holding Lead paint mfg's liable for what was the technology or best product at that time.

Soon this will be about oil based paints and how bad they are, it will start years from now as technology advances and EPA changes their views on oil.
It's been known since the early 1900's that lead paint can cause childhood poisoning and several nations stopped using it not long after.
No it wasn't banned in the US till later, so yes they could legally sell it. But there were other options it just wasn't demanded of them by the gov't till '78.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:11 PM   #19
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I don't think your "boss" has any right to put your personal safety at risk

Thank you and I agree, but ten years ago if I were to bring up safety concerns, especially lead safety, I was the "problem" and people gave me an incredibly hard time. My boss then was a very reasonable person though, and I was not forced to do lead work then, the job just went on without me. I either worked at a different site or I had no work, wasn't let go.

I am now partnering with that friend/boss from 10 years ago, and he agrees to not mess with lead jobs, pretty much from me discussing it with him for years, he read parts of my RRP packet but hadn't even got certified to learn about it.

15- 20 years ago a different boss would have said "bye bye" to me if I disagreed to sand and scrape those lead soffits like we all did. I was scraping and sanding that stuff right into my face without me knowing any better.

So yes, again thank you for your view, and in order to protect each person involved, each person hss to be educated about lead jobs/risks; the GC, the subs, the paint contractor, the employees, and clients/tenants in my opinion..

Education is key, and regulation is necessary for those who ignore the dangers...
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:35 PM   #20
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Leaving the enforcement up to individual states likely won't work either. Since the start of the RRP in 2010 only 14 states have started their own programs. What would encourage them to do so now?

Furthermore, the Fed is also looking to cut state funding for environmental issues, in general. So the states would be tasked, if they feel so inclined, to create their own RRP's with less money.

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Soon this will be about oil based paints and how bad they are, it will start years from now as technology advances and EPA changes their views on oil
Most less expensive paints substitute calcium silicate or some such thing for the more expensive Titanium Dioxide. This cheaper substitute is potentially carcinogenic. So we will likely be working to remove it some time down the road, as well.
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