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Old 12-23-2016, 10:48 AM   #1
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Default Clocking in and out procedures

Hey guys its been awhile since my last post but I have a question for you. In recent years I've been paying out in piece work or sub contracting the labor. Basically a job gets bid for 100 hours and I agree with the sub he gets $28 per labor hour or $2800. Works well for the subcontracting situation.

I have recently hired on a few full time employees and I'm trying to figure out the best system for punching in an out. One guy came from a different trade where he would go to an office and punch in when he got to the office and then he was paid for the drive time to the job site. I dont have an office, the employee would take a company vehicle from his own home. I would rather pay the employee more per hour then for drive time. Below is the list of procedures I have written up for clocking in and out. I wanted to get your guys feedback as its pretty important to get something like this right from the get go.

Punching In To be done when you arrive on site. The day starts at 8am. Exceptions to punching in would be when you have to stop at a paint store to pick up supplies. If supplies are needed and require mixing call ahead to make sure the order is prepared. Punch in when you arrive to the store and stay punched in. Text supervisor to let him know you are stopping at a store.

Punching Out When you leave the job site. Day ends at 4:30 unless the job has been completed. Exception are made if you have to stop at a paint store. If stopping at a paint store then you punch out when you leave the store. Text supervisor to let him know you are stopping at a store.

Breaks One 30 minute break per day and you must punch-out during the break

Bonuses At the end of a 30 day period any hours that have been allocated to a job but not used or the crew has "beaten the budget" the extra hours will be paid to the foreman in the form of a bonus check. For instance: if 320 hrs have actually been worked but the jobs for that month accounted for 340 hrs then 20 extra hrs will be paid out at the current hourly wage. It is up to the foreman to decide if he/she wants to payout some of the bonus to their crew members.

Exceeding budgets - If over the course of a month the hours are 10 percent over the estimated hours a review with the foreman and crew will take place to make adjustments.
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Old 12-23-2016, 11:15 AM   #2
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All of that seems way too confusing and overly complicated. Plus, I would expect at least an hour of break throughout the day. It's un reasonable to think a worker isn't going to want to stop for five, ten, or fifteen minutes to rest between duties.
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Old 12-23-2016, 11:23 AM   #3
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I honestly don't care for contractors who sub out work. First off it is really against the labor laws. If your providing everything then they are really employees. So many contractors try to skirt the labor and tax laws by subbing out work. It also drives the prices for competitors way way down. On the other hand painters around here that sub are starting to loose a lot of their work due to subbing it out.

Labor law in Massachusetts. Work an 8 hour day 3 breaks are given, 2-10 to 15 mins morning and afternoon, lunch break about noon time. It's up to you to pay them for the half hour or not, we do pay 30 min lunch breaks as long as they stay onsite, they leave an hour is automatically deducted.

Punch in/out. We use T-Sheets app. Works awesome, smart phones needed. Can be imported to like Quickbooks or Excel. Or sign in at the jobsite on a time slip. We prefer T-Sheets.

Bonus. The only problem with giving a bonus to a foreman is I know some who kept the money even though the crew deserved a cut. We now give each employee a bonus. Not all deserve one but some do. To make this fair we do not discuss bonuses at all.

Exceeding the budget. Yes a talk with the crew foreman and crew. If your crew is big enough to switch some guys around, mix and match until you get the right crews for the right jobs. Could just come down to they have no clue how to go about something which can add time.
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Old 12-23-2016, 11:25 AM   #4
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All of that seems way too confusing and overly complicated. Plus, I would expect at least an hour of break throughout the day. It's un reasonable to think a worker isn't going to want to stop for five, ten, or fifteen minutes to rest between duties.
What about it is complicated? When do you have them punch in and out? I get there may be a few short breaks through the day. I'm trying to keep production in line with whats estimated so I can go back and either make corrections on my side or work on training/adjusting the crew. Your comment lacks the constructive part of the criticism.
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Old 12-23-2016, 11:31 AM   #5
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I honestly don't care for contractors who sub out work. First off it is really against the labor laws. If your providing everything then they are really employees. So many contractors try to skirt the labor and tax laws by subbing out work. It also drives the prices for competitors way way down. On the other hand painters around here that sub are starting to loose a lot of their work due to subbing it out.

Labor law in Massachusetts. Work an 8 hour day 3 breaks are given, 2-10 to 15 mins morning and afternoon, lunch break about noon time. It's up to you to pay them for the half hour or not, we do pay 30 min lunch breaks as long as they stay onsite, they leave an hour is automatically deducted.

Punch in/out. We use T-Sheets app. Works awesome, smart phones needed. Can be imported to like Quickbooks or Excel. Or sign in at the jobsite on a time slip. We prefer T-Sheets.

Bonus. The only problem with giving a bonus to a foreman is I know some who kept the money even though the crew deserved a cut. We now give each employee a bonus. Not all deserve one but some do. To make this fair we do not discuss bonuses at all.

Exceeding the budget. Yes a talk with the crew foreman and crew. If your crew is big enough to switch some guys around, mix and match until you get the right crews for the right jobs. Could just come down to they have no clue how to go about something which can add time.
I appreciate the feedback. I understand subbing work out can rub some the wrong way but I think there is a time and a place for it. When do you ask them to punch in and out? When the arrive to the job site and leave the job site? Do you ever let them stay punched in for travel time? I think the bonus part may need tweaking but I'm not sure.
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Old 12-23-2016, 11:41 AM   #6
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What about it is complicated? When do you have them punch in and out? I get there may be a few short breaks through the day. I'm trying to keep production in line with whats estimated so I can go back and either make corrections on my side or work on training/adjusting the crew. Your comment lacks the constructive part of the criticism.
It only lacks what you want to hear. The constructive part was giving your helpers another thirty minutes of break.
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Old 12-23-2016, 11:46 AM   #7
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Looks good from here. Don't know about the sub parts but from an employers perspective, that's pretty much how we roll.
Couple of things, 1) 2 15 minute breaks, 1 30 minute lunch. Breaks on us, lunch on them. I think it's federal law?
2) it's expected that everyone commutes. We pay from the first stop of the day onward. When they leave the last stop, they clock out. Anything over 1 hr either way is paid (if the job is far away or?? For some reason)...
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Old 12-23-2016, 11:51 AM   #8
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I appreciate the feedback. I understand subbing work out can rub some the wrong way but I think there is a time and a place for it. When do you ask them to punch in and out? When the arrive to the job site and leave the job site? Do you ever let them stay punched in for travel time? I think the bonus part may need tweaking but I'm not sure.
Punch in/out at the jobsite. if driving an hour or more we pay travel time. No one on our crew ever needs to go to the paint store. That's what I do, most of the running around and making sure the crews are all set with materials for the day/job.
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Old 12-23-2016, 11:55 AM   #9
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Looks good from here. Don't know about the sub parts but from an employers perspective, that's pretty much how we roll.
Couple of things, 1) 2 15 minute breaks, 1 30 minute lunch. Breaks on us, lunch on them. I think it's federal law?
2) it's expected that everyone commutes. We pay from the first stop of the day onward. When they leave the last stop, they clock out. Anything over 1 hr either way is paid (if the job is far away or?? For some reason)...
Most states have their own rules along with the fed rules. Like I said in MA 8 hours of work a day is a minimum of 2 10-15 min breaks plus lunch.

When figuring out hours for a job I make sure to include every ones breaks (assuming they stay onsite). All other trades I know operate like this and so far we have been without any issues about prices.
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Old 12-23-2016, 11:56 AM   #10
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Alltimate check your local labor laws on the breaks employees are supposed to get. You can't argue with the law.
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Old 12-23-2016, 01:00 PM   #11
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I knew a guy out west who insisted his guys eat their lunch on site. Had too many problems with guys coming back late saying the drive through was packed, waitress/kitchen was slow, etc. He ran a really good crew though, and paid well so nobody complained.

Plus, the guy was about 6'9" and built like a battleship so complaining rarely came up either way.
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Old 12-23-2016, 03:26 PM   #12
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If you are using subs, why do you care when they punch in or out? If they've agreed to do the job for a set price, what difference does it make if they do it in 8 hours or 80?

If you are paying by the hour, you are likely not following proper rules on subs.
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Old 12-23-2016, 04:14 PM   #13
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If you are using subs, why do you care when they punch in or out? If they've agreed to do the job for a set price, what difference does it make if they do it in 8 hours or 80?

If you are paying by the hour, you are likely not following proper rules on subs.
With subs I dont. Subs have their own insurance, tools, employees, etc. Subs are paid a set price that is discussed before the job starts. All the regulations are followed in terms of subcontracting and for some situations it works very well. Recently I hired a few employees which is what the question pertains to. Subs will still get their fair share of work but I wanted to get a few guys on payroll so I could have a little more control over the process for certain types of projects.
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Old 12-28-2016, 02:29 AM   #14
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If you plan on handing out bonuses, I would hand them out twice a year or yearly (maybe as a Christmas bonus) so you get a average of the profit that foreman/worker made. Sometimes you need that extra 20 hours from one job to make up 20 hours for a job that didn't go so good.
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Old 12-28-2016, 03:58 AM   #15
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Alltimate, I think your policy proposal is fair, straight forward and not confusing at all. I am a painting employee that works for a small painting company, and a small scale general contractor throughout the year.

Your idea sounds good as far as clocking in and out, and bonuses. Most companies I've worked for (smaller scale) are flexible on the start and end times as long as you work a full day or do your best when family/schedule situations come up. Most companies appreciate when employees are willing to work later in order to accomplish a certain goal for the day. As an employee I wouldn't ask for anything extra in those situations, just regular hourly rate. . Just be reasonable and understanding when employees are trying their best but have to stay home if their kid is sick and has to stay home from school, etc.

The bonus sounds great actually, I could use an opportunity like that. I would do pretty good throughout a years time. Still, quality first, speed second.
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:10 AM   #16
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Alltimate, I think your policy proposal is fair, straight forward and not confusing at all. I am a painting employee that works for a small painting company, and a small scale general contractor throughout the year.

Your idea sounds good as far as clocking in and out, and bonuses. Most companies I've worked for (smaller scale) are flexible on the start and end times as long as you work a full day or do your best when family/schedule situations come up. Most companies appreciate when employees are willing to work later in order to accomplish a certain goal for the day. As an employee I wouldn't ask for anything extra in those situations, just regular hourly rate. . Just be reasonable and understanding when employees are trying their best but have to stay home if their kid is sick and has to stay home from school, etc.

The bonus sounds great actually, I could use an opportunity like that. I would do pretty good throughout a years time. Still, quality first, speed second.
As kind as it is to refuse time and a half, isn't it a law to pay workers overtime beyond forty hours?
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Old 12-28-2016, 05:18 PM   #17
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As kind as it is to refuse time and a half, isn't it a law to pay workers overtime beyond forty hours?
I guess it a law but I've very rarely been a benefactor of it. Most small companies say "I don't bid for overtime, so I don't pay overtime" , or "we don't pay overtime, so if you want hours, work them or don't..", or "I would have to drop everyone's wages if I have to pay overtime".

Ah, I'm just happy to get paid what I'm worth at an hourly wage, and have some flexibility in company policies which goes both ways.
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Old 12-28-2016, 07:38 PM   #18
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I guess it a law but I've very rarely been a benefactor of it. Most small companies say "I don't bid for overtime, so I don't pay overtime" , or "we don't pay overtime, so if you want hours, work them or don't..", or "I would have to drop everyone's wages if I have to pay overtime".

Ah, I'm just happy to get paid what I'm worth at an hourly wage, and have some flexibility in company policies which goes both ways.
Well, you certainly make an argument for running your own business, or at least working for an organization that is structured to comply with standard labor laws. I spent way too many years hustling for a mom and pop shop only to find I reached a dead end. I can't even count how many hours I gave away because I was nice. I never complained about the "extra effort" because I was always kept bust while the "problem" employees finger traced raindrops on their front room windows during the so called "slow" season.
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:22 PM   #19
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Alltimate, I think your policy proposal is fair, straight forward and not confusing at all. I am a painting employee that works for a small painting company, and a small scale general contractor throughout the year.

Your idea sounds good as far as clocking in and out, and bonuses. Most companies I've worked for (smaller scale) are flexible on the start and end times as long as you work a full day or do your best when family/schedule situations come up. Most companies appreciate when employees are willing to work later in order to accomplish a certain goal for the day. As an employee I wouldn't ask for anything extra in those situations, just regular hourly rate. . Just be reasonable and understanding when employees are trying their best but have to stay home if their kid is sick and has to stay home from school, etc.

The bonus sounds great actually, I could use an opportunity like that. I would do pretty good throughout a years time. Still, quality first, speed second.
I appreciate your feedback. I understand stuff comes up and I'm probably more on the relaxed side when it comes to normal life situations that take priority. As long as it isn't an everyday theme. I figured in terms of bonuses all I care about is over a years time having the budget meet the actual. Our production rates are pretty dialed in and competitive with the market so when I bid it as such I dont see why my guys shouldnt get the bonus for working harder so long as quality isnt sacrificed.
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Old 12-29-2016, 09:22 AM   #20
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The whole reason many got into trades was not to punch a clock. I've never ever made guys do it or done it myself in all my years. Yeah I know you want to track productivity there's ways to do that without punching a clock.

How did we ever survive and run profitable business before technical bullsh@t. I may be older and maybe grumpy but was so so so much better life in the old days. And so much more enjoyable. It's a freakn rat race today and EVERYBODY is a contractor.

Ok with that said just implant a tracking device in your employees neck and have them scanned ��������
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