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Old 12-02-2016, 02:25 AM   #1
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Just linking this here. I'm interested to hear what everybody's experience is with Trade Damage, and what your approach is!

http://constructioncareerpodcast.com...-damage-right/
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Old 12-02-2016, 07:05 AM   #2
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Our contract states that we will only repair paint defects IE: Weal spots, missed spots.

Any dings, dents, drilled holes, scuff marks and so on are considered extra. Once we complete a room the GC writes it off. From that point it's all extra. I have gone back and forth with trades over damages. Ultimately we end up billing the GC who in turn bills the other trades.
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Old 12-02-2016, 11:02 AM   #3
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Very good blog!

It would seem practical to just prime everything before hand and wait for the other trades to finish before applying the finish. But I suppose it's not. Particularly if the painter is the last one there painting under project conditions that have become urgent due to a budget crisis.

And then again, maybe it just goes with the territory in terms of a personal trade choice and the fact that painting is often looked upon as the least skilled craft in the building industry. Perhaps reserve the lowest company wage earners to complete the punch list tasks.
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Old 12-02-2016, 03:43 PM   #4
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@kentdalimp Thanks for sharing! Your blog post was very well written and it was helpful to hear great how you've dealt with trade damage.

Most of my work is resi repaint, but in the 6 months a lot of my workload has been coming from 2 GC's. Trade damage hasn't been an issue yet, but after reading your post I need to do a better job communicating and including clauses in my contracts about trade damage.


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Old 12-02-2016, 05:31 PM   #5
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Thank you everybody for the responses. I'm sitting at work waiting on Lunch and popped back in to see if it had been marked as SPAM or something.

I'm working on a few more posts because having come from owning a business, there is a lot I have learned during my time with a Large Company. I'm trying to think of what would be beneficial to a lot of guys doing their own thing.

Any thoughts on topics you would like to see?
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Old 12-02-2016, 07:58 PM   #6
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Hey Kent. There's actually a section of the forum specifically for posting blogs.

http://www.painttalk.com/f31/

Yours was a great read. I went through a bunch of the situations mentioned when working for a few GCs. What a nightmare. Only suggestion I'd make is changing the text from grey to black or something. The grey made it a bit hard to read. Otherwise, it was a really good read.
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Old 12-02-2016, 08:49 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by CApainter View Post
Very good blog!

It would seem practical to just prime everything before hand and wait for the other trades to finish before applying the finish. But I suppose it's not. Particularly if the painter is the last one there painting under project conditions that have become urgent due to a budget crisis.

And then again, maybe it just goes with the territory in terms of a personal trade choice and the fact that painting is often looked upon as the least skilled craft in the building industry. Perhaps reserve the lowest company wage earners to complete the punch list tasks.
Do you really want to wait until the carpet guy finishes his job?...Those guys always want to come in before us but I won't let them.Good carpet installers can do a good job without marking up the walls if they really HAVE TO. I mean, they love when they can lay the carpet up on the wall and cut it that way. It saves them a lot of time and they subsequently earn more money. I always balk at it and usually get my way.

I'm a re-painter not a NC contractor.
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Old 12-02-2016, 09:08 PM   #8
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Really good stuff there, it took us a while to get the GC we work for to understand the difference in touch up and damage repair. Stuff still gets beat up but at least now we are paid to fix it. And I agree about the grey print being a little hard to read.
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Old 12-02-2016, 09:30 PM   #9
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Really good stuff there, it took us a while to get the GC we work for to understand the difference in touch up and damage repair. Stuff still gets beat up but at least now we are paid to fix it. And I agree about the grey print being a little hard to read.
I had a designer once tell me to include touch-ups in the job price. I resisted and said it would be impossible to guess how much damage will incur after each job. I have no issues at all touching up our own mistakes but there is no GD way that we are going to touch up other trades damage for free. Sometimes you have to repaint the entire house. With the new acrylics there is no such thing as a touch-up on a wall. Whatever you do it will flash.

This is why there are misunderstandings. People think that touch-ups are exactly what the word implies---A little dab here,a little dab there..WRONG!!!

Eventually she wore me down and I included a hefty charge for expected "touch-ups" in the final quote. (I'm NOT going to guesstimate LOW) Next, she complained that my prices were too high...We eventually went our separate ways. Some people just do not understand our business no matter how many times you explain it to them.

BTW the final price also included the 5% fee she charged me per job for the referral.No wonder the customers complained about the price to her. SMH
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Old 12-02-2016, 09:48 PM   #10
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I had a designer once tell me to include touch-ups in the job price. I resisted and said it would be impossible to guess how much damage will incur after each job. I have no issues at all touching up our own mistakes but there is no GD way that we are going to touch up other trades damage for free. Sometimes you have to repaint the entire house. With the new acrylics there is no such thing as a touch-up on a wall. Whatever you do it will flash.

This is why there are misunderstandings. People think that touch-ups are exactly what the word implies---A little dab here,a little dab there..WRONG!!!

Eventually she wore me down and I included a hefty charge for expected "touch-ups" in the final quote. (I'm NOT going to guesstimate LOW) Next, she complained that my prices were too high...We eventually went our separate ways. Some people just do not understand our business no matter how many times you explain it to them.

BTW the final price also included the 5% fee she charged me per job for the referral.No wonder the customers complained about the price to her. SMH
I have worked with a couple interior designers, it is usually a PITA. We had one have the nerve to tell us that she saw color different than most people because she had an extra cone in her eye... I guess to try to justify her outrageous prices.. I told my dad I had an extra cone in my ear, and that I could hear bull S*&+ a mile away.
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Old 12-02-2016, 10:12 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by mattpaints82 View Post
I have worked with a couple interior designers, it is usually a PITA. We had one have the nerve to tell us that she saw color different than most people because she had an extra cone in her eye... I guess to try to justify her outrageous prices.. I told my dad I had an extra cone in my ear, and that I could hear bull S*&+ a mile away.
A few years ago I did a presentation of sorts in front of an entire office of interior designers/decorators. It was a BIG firm. I impressed them and was awarded a job. We completed the work and the designer wanted a 20% commission for the referral. I said you got to be chitting me! The most I ever paid was 5%. This was a 10K job so the sum was 2K...I refused and never saw them again.

Bottom line is, don't assume that some big companies are going to play fair with you------- even though the kickback transaction is a bit shady. I'm sure their customers don't know about the 20% commission. There is a reason why they always want to be paid in CASH.

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Old 12-02-2016, 10:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentdalimp View Post
Just linking this here. I'm interested to hear what everybody's experience is with Trade Damage, and what your approach is!

http://constructioncareerpodcast.com...-damage-right/
Nice Blog. Thank you for sharing it.
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Old 12-03-2016, 07:48 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Mr Smith View Post
I had a designer once tell me to include touch-ups in the job price. I resisted and said it would be impossible to guess how much damage will incur after each job. I have no issues at all touching up our own mistakes but there is no GD way that we are going to touch up other trades damage for free. Sometimes you have to repaint the entire house. With the new acrylics there is no such thing as a touch-up on a wall. Whatever you do it will flash.

This is why there are misunderstandings. People think that touch-ups are exactly what the word implies---A little dab here,a little dab there..WRONG!!!

Eventually she wore me down and I included a hefty charge for expected "touch-ups" in the final quote. (I'm NOT going to guesstimate LOW) Next, she complained that my prices were too high...We eventually went our separate ways. Some people just do not understand our business no matter how many times you explain it to them.

BTW the final price also included the 5% fee she charged me per job for the referral.No wonder the customers complained about the price to her. SMH
When a GC says this to me I tell them I will estimate an additional 200 hours for touch ups at x-amount an hour. This usually changes their minds on adding touch ups to the estimate.
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Old 12-03-2016, 09:31 AM   #14
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To be fair, I hav r not read the blog....yet.
All I know is we don't do a lot of NC or commercial so the trade damage we usually encounter is from our own carpenters and tile guys and such. We call that "job security"
In the off chance that we are working on a multi trade project, it's outlined that no other trades are to be in active painting areas and that trade damage repairs will be billed at t&m+20% at the end....those agreements are made prior to opening a can.
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Old 12-03-2016, 10:39 AM   #15
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To be fair, I hav r not read the blog....yet.
All I know is we don't do a lot of NC or commercial so the trade damage we usually encounter is from our own carpenters and tile guys and such. We call that "job security"
In the off chance that we are working on a multi trade project, it's outlined that no other trades are to be in active painting areas and that trade damage repairs will be billed at t&m+20% at the end....those agreements are made prior to opening a can.
Wow, would be nice to be able to make a GC agree to that around here.

This pic is from the last NC job I did. The carpenter boys decided to set their chop saw up right against a wall in a room I'd painted a couple days prior while doing trim.
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Old 12-03-2016, 12:04 PM   #16
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The whole touch-up issue was the reason we settled on our particular work sequence for NC. After ALL the other trades are done, we paint a final coat on the walls.

Our regular GCs liked this for several reasons: it saves all the finger-pointing over who did what; it's a predictable amount, since it's basically a one-coat resi repaint (typically, with no furniture); and it looks great, with no issues about how well the touch ups blend.
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Old 12-03-2016, 12:17 PM   #17
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Wow, would be nice to be able to make a GC agree to that around here.

This pic is from the last NC job I did. The carpenter boys decided to set their chop saw up right against a wall in a room I'd painted a couple days prior while doing trim.
Like I said, we don't do a lot of em. I do have 2 other gc's that we work for that do remodels they like us and are happy to accommodate as needed. I, too, try to be last in. Color coat during production final at finish...but I'm not fixing ho stuff or trade damage for free.
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Old 12-03-2016, 12:25 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Wildbill7145 View Post
Wow, would be nice to be able to make a GC agree to that around here.

This pic is from the last NC job I did. The carpenter boys decided to set their chop saw up right against a wall in a room I'd painted a couple days prior while doing trim.
I've been known to have painted a few saw blades back in the day. Nice oil based primer or paint. Most of those guys learned quick not to set up in my finished rooms. The smell they had to put up with from burning paint.
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Old 12-03-2016, 03:02 PM   #19
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I've been known to have painted a few saw blades back in the day. Nice oil based primer or paint. Most of those guys learned quick not to set up in my finished rooms. The smell they had to put up with from burning paint.
Paint his saw? You are nicer than me. I would have made that saw disappear. Especially after mocking me by writing in the dust.

I once kicked a guys radio down the steps for blaring it too loud.
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Old 12-03-2016, 03:23 PM   #20
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Paint his saw? You are nicer than me. I would have made that saw disappear. Especially after mocking me by writing in the dust.

I once kicked a guys radio down the steps for blaring it too loud.

Just the blade. I wouldn't want to damage someones stuff. I've thought about it.
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