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Old 03-22-2013, 12:25 AM   #1
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Default Enamel sanding between two finish coats necessary???

Hi everyone I have a large enamel job and I have done at least 75 full home interior enamel jobs but never sanded between the first and second finish coat with no issues ever.

I usually spray one coat under-coater and sand it smooth then spray one coat oil enamel let it dry then come back and spray the second coat the following day without doing anything.

Does anyone see a reason I should scuff sand the first coat to prep for the second finish coat???

He is using Sherwin Williams EASY SAND PRIMER and PRO CLASSIC OIL ENAMEL Satin finish or Semi-gloss. I didn't check the sheen but let me know if either will have any issues.

Thank you for your help.

Shawn

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Old 03-22-2013, 12:32 AM   #2
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Hey Shawn - welcome to the group.

Not trying to be a smart azz or anything but I have to respectfully ask - if you've done 75 of these why have any doubts about your procedure now? Seems to me you would have a pretty good feeling for this sort of thing. And who is "he"? Are you not doing this yourself? Just curious.

With oil you should be fine between coats IMO.

Dan

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Old 03-22-2013, 12:59 AM   #3
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Hi Dan,

I have done many jobs this one is not my job because the home owner is trying to save money and hired me hourly for $30 rather than the $50 an hour through the business to work with a couple other painters he has to do his 12,000 square foot house saving him hundreds of thousands i'm sure with all trades.

Because he said he always does this sanding between coats it honestly made me doubt myself because the majority I only do one finish coat.

I came in a few days ago and was looking at what someone else did to his cabinets with fingering everywhere from a blown airless tip or low pressure, but he didn't see it and they did the wood in the bedrooms with similar results which he thought was ok I guess.

Honestly, I guess I wasn't 100% sure because I mostly do the one finish coat which always looks perfect.

Thanks Dan.
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:04 AM   #4
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Dan, just read your rep again. You said "You should be fine between coats". What exactly did you mean by that?? I'm fine not sanding between the first and second finish coat?

Thanks again sir.
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:55 AM   #5
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Dan, just read your rep again. You said "You should be fine between coats". What exactly did you mean by that?? I'm fine not sanding between the first and second finish coat?

Thanks again sir.
Sorry - should have been a bit clearer. The adhesion of oil products is pretty impressive. Following the manufacterer's recommendations for dry time between coats I usually feel pretty confident in applying the second coat without much, if any, sanding in between. With that said, if I am doing larger flat surfaces like doors or cabinets then a light sanding may be in order. And there may be a need to sand if imperfections exist. If you want to be sure, and want to make the HO happy, then a really light sanding wouldn't hurt - but I wouldn't spend a bunch of time on it. Other's may disagree with what I've said, but I've done a ton of oil work and never had an issue.
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Old 03-22-2013, 03:41 AM   #6
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No need to sand in between coats unless you have little nibs or imperfections you want to remove. If I do sand I'll use 320 grit. If you wait more than a week or so you may want to sand, but certainly not the next day or two.
I have a friend who shoots one full coat of SW proclassic oil semi, comes back in 1/2 hour to 1 hour, and shoots another full coat. Obviously no sanding between coats there, and it looks awesome.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:42 AM   #7
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add some penetrol if you have any doubts about adhesion of the final coat.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:59 AM   #8
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add some penetrol if you have any doubts about adhesion of the final coat.
What does Penetrol have to do with adhesion?

Since you are being paid hourly, I say go ahead and make a quick pass with 320, then a nice tack cloth wipe on all the doors.
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:21 PM   #9
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Mike, are you serious ? Penetrol makes paint adhere better to the previous surface. I'm very surprised at your comment.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:33 PM   #10
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I wasn't aware of penetrol aiding in adhesion, so I looked it up. According to their website it helps oil paint stick to anything, even glass. Pretty impressive claims. Good to know even though I rarely if ever use oil anymore.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:30 PM   #11
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Not aware of the adhesion properties? Always used a wetting agent, good to know. I only use hybrids when in need of an oil these days. XIM extender is great for that.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:39 PM   #12
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Mike - what hybrid are you favoring right now? I tried the ProClassic Waterbased Acrylic Alkyd (satin) a week or so ago and was pretty impressed with it. Brushed it out and it laid down so well it looked sprayed. I'd be interested to see how the XIM extender impacts that product.

Damon - have you sprayed any of that through your HVLP?
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:40 PM   #13
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I don't know if we're talking oils or latex here, but once latex cures or on it's way to curing - it's wise to sand the finish prior to putting another coat. I use to pole sand all my walls between coats on customer jobs - over the years, starting on my own house, I've gradually removed the sanding between coats and I haven't seen the quality suffer. Personally, I think the paints they are putting out these days has incredible adhesion - I dabbed some ACE Clark + Kensington satin paint onto some adjacent semigloss trim that hasn't been painted in over 12 years - and the stuff is glued to the trim with absolutely no prep whatsoever.

I continue to sand trim between coats - not so worried about adhesion anymore between coats, it's just a way for me to sand back those brush lines so they don't build up too much.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:45 PM   #14
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Dan - have you tried any of the hybrid enamels that I referred to in my above post? I swear I had to hunt to see any brush marks after using that stuff. If I didn't know differently I would have sworn it was sprayed.
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:02 AM   #15
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Dan - have you tried any of the hybrid enamels that I referred to in my above post? I swear I had to hunt to see any brush marks after using that stuff. If I didn't know differently I would have sworn it was sprayed.
The only hybrid I used was Advance - other than passing a scotch brite pad to remove any obvious flecks that got into the paint - I probably wouldn't bother sanding either.

My procedures are based upon all my experience with paints over the last 15 years, many things I do are out of habit due to what I learned with. It would be interesting to Jack Pauhl's opinion on sanding between coats as he claims his finishes are flawless - so is there still a reason to sand?

It took me a few years to let go of the habit of sanding between coats of paint, but I finally did and don't see any issues whatsoever?
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:28 AM   #16
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Mike - what hybrid are you favoring right now? I tried the ProClassic Waterbased Acrylic Alkyd (satin) a week or so ago and was pretty impressed with it. Brushed it out and it laid down so well it looked sprayed. I'd be interested to see how the XIM extender impacts that product.

Damon - have you sprayed any of that through your HVLP?
The only hybrid I've shot is the advance. I have a gallon of cloverdale renaissance my Rodda rep gave me to try. Haven't shot it yet. Liked how the C2 cabinet paint sprayed, but its not a hybrid. I sprayed some advance satin in a deep reddish purple on some fancy window casings today. Went over a grey primer 046, looked really nice in two coats. Actually looked pretty darn good in one coat, but did the 2nd today. The only problem I have is the edges of the casings next to the walls. It's hard to get good coverage there due to bounce back. I'm wondering if I should set the pattern to round?
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:40 AM   #17
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The only hybrid I've shot is the advance. I have a gallon of cloverdale renaissance my Rodda rep gave me to try. Haven't shot it yet. Liked how the C2 cabinet paint sprayed, but its not a hybrid. I sprayed some advance satin in a deep reddish purple on some fancy window casings today. Went over a grey primer 046, looked really nice in two coats. Actually looked pretty darn good in one coat, but did the 2nd today. The only problem I have is the edges of the casings next to the walls. It's hard to get good coverage there due to bounce back. I'm wondering if I should set the pattern to round?
I worked with a guy who was a sprayer and his solution with that was he gave me a 2" dale angle sash and had me go around painting those sides by hand one coat. That ensures the sides looked plenty solid after spraying the trim twice.
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Old 03-23-2013, 01:09 AM   #18
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Mike - what hybrid are you favoring right now? I tried the ProClassic Waterbased Acrylic Alkyd (satin) a week or so ago and was pretty impressed with it. Brushed it out and it laid down so well it looked sprayed. I'd be interested to see how the XIM extender impacts that product.

Damon - have you sprayed any of that through your HVLP?
I use the Proclassic hybrid sg. My only problem with is the sheen is to dull. Initially it feels gritty, but feels smoother when cured, if that makes sense. I brush and roll, have not sprayed.
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plainpainter

I worked with a guy who was a sprayer and his solution with that was he gave me a 2" dale angle sash and had me go around painting those sides by hand one coat. That ensures the sides looked plenty solid after spraying the trim twice.
Yeah we hit them after the fact. Had masked off the walls so hitting the sides was really easy. Doing so beforehand would be a better plan. Thanks.
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:25 AM   #20
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I use the Proclassic hybrid sg. My only problem with is the sheen is to dull. Initially it feels gritty, but feels smoother when cured, if that makes sense. I brush and roll, have not sprayed.
As I mentioned, I used the satin and I really liked the look of it - a soft, almost hand rubbed like sheen. Had my SW guys do a drawn down of the SG and it didn't look all that much different so I will have to try it out on something real to get a true feel for it. Definitely not as shiny as "regular" SG though.

I didn't get the gritty effect you mentioned. Within a few hours it felt pretty darned smooth IMO. I used a Corona Sabre for application - nice brush! I've been on that job over the past week and have been checking the trim out every day and I am very pleased with the end result.

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