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Old 03-29-2013, 09:01 AM   #1
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Default Finishing cedar clapboard the best way possible

Hello all,
Our crew has completely stripped 2,500 sq. ft. of cedar siding with "the Paint Shaver" and then finished with various Festool sanders.
I am trying to figure out the best way to proceed with finishing it.
For many years after normal very thorough prep I have primed with a slow dry oil and top coated with a solid stain to great success.
In the interest of doing the VERY best we can and having gone to great effort in removing 100% of the previous coatings I wanted to get others point of view.
The customer has chosen a color (Jackson Tan) which is a little darker than tannin color, so I am considering applying two coats of solid stain with no primer.
As it stands now I am considering:
1) slow dry oil + latex solid stain
2) slow dry oil + watered down (10%) Duration or Aura
3) two coats latex solid stain

Any thoughts would be appreciated especially by folks who have had good success at their finishes lasting for many years!
Thanks in advance for your help,
Ken from Odell Painting, LLC
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:30 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Odell View Post
Hello all,
Our crew has completely stripped 2,500 sq. ft. of cedar siding with "the Paint Shaver" and then finished with various Festool sanders.
I am trying to figure out the best way to proceed with finishing it.
For many years after normal very thorough prep I have primed with a slow dry oil and top coated with a solid stain to great success.
In the interest of doing the VERY best we can and having gone to great effort in removing 100% of the previous coatings I wanted to get others point of view.
The customer has chosen a color (Jackson Tan) which is a little darker than tannin color, so I am considering applying two coats of solid stain with no primer.
As it stands now I am considering:
1) slow dry oil + latex solid stain
2) slow dry oil + watered down (10%) Duration or Aura
3) two coats latex solid stain

Any thoughts would be appreciated especially by folks who have had good success at their finishes lasting for many years!
Thanks in advance for your help,
Ken from Odell Painting, LLC
One standard for years has been a long-oil primer followed by two coats of top-of-the-line latex (PPG or BM). The jobs we've done on quality cedar claps with that system routinely last 12-15 years.
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:46 AM   #3
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I've done a number of cedar jobs, and my thinking (and my paint reps) is that stain is best applied over bare wood, and primer defeats the purpose of stain.
It appears to be a solid color (if its was a semi you could skip the primer altogether and go with BM Arborcoat) I have not used BM Arborcoat's solid stain, maybe someone else can chime in on that idea.
Your idea of long oil with 2 coats Aura is a good one. Why the reduction? Is it it super hot where you are?
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:59 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdpaint View Post
I've done a number of cedar jobs, and my thinking (and my paint reps) is that stain is best applied over bare wood, and primer defeats the purpose of stain.
It appears to be a solid color (if its was a semi you could skip the primer altogether and go with BM Arborcoat) I have not used BM Arborcoat's solid stain, maybe someone else can chime in on that idea.
Your idea of long oil with 2 coats Aura is a good one. Why the reduction? Is it it super hot where you are?
We've used ArborCoat solid color stain on a number of jobs and like it a lot. The Gennex tint system seems to make a huge difference in color fastness.

We haven't used it on many stripped jobs, and I would be concerned about tannin bleed, even it the color seems close.
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:13 AM   #5
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That's great looking. Why cover that nice cedar with paint? Sikkens Log and Siding Teak would probably be close to Jackson Tan but in a clear finish. Wouldn't hide the cedar, and achieve a nicer look. Just a clear maintenance coat every 3-4 years.
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:14 AM   #6
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I have had good results with the new oil modified solid stains. Seem to hold up better than strait latex. ZAR and flood are my favorites. Both have good warranties.
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:22 AM   #7
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Man that's awesome , how many labor hours did that take to strip?
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:58 PM   #8
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Same old question, new year.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:05 PM   #9
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Latex stain is watered down flat paint, basically.

If you're going to prime, there's no point in using stain.

Stain's whole purpose in existing is to show off the grain of the wood while providing a non-opaque film to provide color and UV protection. If you do a prime underneath, it negates any usefulness of a solid stain. Stains other value is it's a bit easier to prep or remove down the road than a full film forming coating. Stains don't last half as long either. You're left with basically a sub par "painted" finish that doesn't last as long as would one with a quality paint like aura.

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Old 03-29-2013, 03:48 PM   #10
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I've seen some latex stain jobs on siding that wore pretty well. Although it tends to fall apart on anything horizontal. Some of the longest lasting exteriors I have done were done with latex paint over existing solid stain in good condition. I think the oil modifieds are gonna take over the ext stain mkt
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ Paint View Post
Latex stain is watered down flat paint, basically.

If you're going to prime, there's no point in using stain.

Stain's whole purpose in existing is to show off the grain of the wood while providing a non-opaque film to provide color and UV protection. If you do a prime underneath, it negates any usefulness of a solid stain. Stains other value is it's a bit easier to prep or remove down the road than a full film forming coating. Stains don't last half as long either. You're left with basically a sub par "painted" finish that doesn't last as long as would one with a quality paint like aura.

I accept paypal.

Same old answer, new year.
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Old 03-29-2013, 07:25 PM   #12
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Stain may not last as long as paint, but it doesn't peel nearly as bad either. Much easier to apply a fresh coat every few years (five or six) instead of painting several times, and be back at stripping it again because of so much failing paint.

Two coats of stain may be fine. Test it and see how it bleeds, you could just be doing knots in long oil.
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:35 PM   #13
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stain it...no primer...
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Old 03-30-2013, 03:46 AM   #14
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Stain may not last as long as paint, but it doesn't peel nearly as bad either. Much easier to apply a fresh coat every few years (five or six) instead of painting several times, and be back at stripping it again because of so much failing paint.

You're right, it doesn't peel as bad, until you have several coats building up on it.
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:08 AM   #15
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Come summer it is very hot ( we are in Pa) and Aura or Duration is really difficult to spread especially over rough raw cedar.
Thanks a lot.
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:18 AM   #16
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KD Paint,
Come summer it is very hot ( we are in Pa) and Aura or Duration is really difficult to spread especially over rough raw cedar.
Thanks a lot.
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:23 AM   #17
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Modern Finish,
I will let you know we will be done 100% tomorrow.
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:28 AM   #18
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NC Paint 1,
They want a solid color look, but it sure is tempting after all that work!
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:06 PM   #19
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Ken,

First: GORGEOUS home. My first thought was "looks like PA, very historic, Bucks or Delaware".

With that in mind, what about the appropriate historic look of your finish? With a primer and the solid, it will appear more like the historic look of full bodied paint.

and you yourself said, "For many years after normal very thorough prep I have primed with a slow dry oil and top coated with a solid stain to great success."

You know your location and what has been successful.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:53 PM   #20
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Modern Finish et al,
For those interested, it took us 1 hour to do 10.5 square feet of cedar siding. The whole job was 2,500 square feet and we put 238 man hours. That includes using the Paint Shaver, then sanding with 40, then 60 grit.
We chose to finish it with two coats of BM Arbor Coat Jackson Tan.
Thanks for all your input and thoughts, I appreciate it.
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