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Old 08-28-2010, 04:05 PM   #1
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Default HVLP material thinning

Just got my first HVLP - Graco 9.0 4-stage turbine. Totally used to airless & not having to thin my product. For those of you that spray with an HVLP, what needle size do you typically use for oil enamels and how much do you thin them? Do you use straight thinner, or Penetrol as well? Thanks for the help.

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Old 08-28-2010, 06:29 PM   #2
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Percent Smallest Unit Projector Set Projector Set
Material Reduction Recommended Recommended Orifice Size (in.)
Pro Mar 200 10-15% 9100 4 to 5 .070 to .086
Pro Mar 400 10-15% 9100 4 to 5 .070 to .086
Super Paint 5-15% 8100 3 to 4 .051 to .070
Classic 99 5-15% 9100 3 to 4 .051 to .070
Ceiling Paint 5-10% 5100 3 to 4 .051 to .070
DTM Water Base 0-5% 5100 3 to 4 .051 to .070
Acrylic
Chem Lack 2-4% 9100 3 to 4 .051 to .070
Metal Latex 5-10% 9100 4 to 5 .070 to .086
Style Perfect 10-15% 8100 3 to 4 051 to .070
Classic 99 Alkyd 5-15% 5100 3 to 4 .051 to .070
Industrial Enamel 5-15% 5100 3 to 4 .051 to .070
Quick Dry 5-15% 5100 3 to 4 .051 to .070
Enamel
DTM Alkyd 2-5% 5100 3 to 4 .051 to .070
Polane Mfg. Rec. 5100 2 to 3 .031 to .051
Water Base Epoxy 5% 9100 3 to 4 .051 to .070
Nitrocellulous Mfg. Rec. 5100 2 to 3 .031 to .051
Lacquer
Opex Production 10% 5100 3 to 4 .051 to .070
Lacquer
Water White 10% 5100 3 to 4 .051 to .070
Lacquer
Multi Spec 0% 8100 4 to 5 .070 to .086
Tile Clad 10-15% 9100 4 to 5 .070 to .086
Polyurethane 0% 5100 3 to 4 .051 to .070
Sealer
0% 5100 3 to 4 .051 to .070
Latex Primer 5-10% 5100 3 to 4 .051 to .070

Incredicoat 5-10% 8100 3 to 4 .051 to .070

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Old 08-28-2010, 06:42 PM   #3
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sorry if above post is hard to read. each line in order is first. SW product, yo0u can insert equivelant, then amount of thinning required,(i do add conditioners) next is the size of machine you should have to spray that product.. 9100 = 4 stage , so your all good there next is projector size and orafice..
hope it was of some help..
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Old 08-28-2010, 06:57 PM   #4
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Nice gallery pics on the site Gary. I enjoy the faux section.
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Old 08-28-2010, 07:12 PM   #5
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Nice gallery pics on the site Gary. I enjoy the faux section.

I agree.

Skill.

That column is amazing. It looks real.
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Old 08-28-2010, 07:24 PM   #6
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If having several projector sets are not in the budget. Investment in a Ford or Zahn cup to determine relative viscosity when reducing paints and coatings is relatively inexpensive.

Some materials are more thixotropic than others. Also some reducers especially aliphatics and aromatics react differently with alkyd paints.

Best Bet IMO is to take that new rig outside, fill the pot or cup with water and practice manipulating the controls while watering the flowers at the same time.
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Old 08-30-2010, 09:43 PM   #7
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Default New HVLP - orange peel finish

Trying out my new Graco 9.0, 4 stage HVLP on some old furniture. Using BM Satin Impervo alkyd, #4 fluid set (1.8 mm). I thinned the paint by 10% w/mineral spirits and also added 5% penetrol. Still getting an orange peel finish. Any suggestions? Thanks.
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Old 08-30-2010, 09:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graypaint View Post
Trying out my new Graco 9.0, 4 stage HVLP on some old furniture. Using BM Satin Impervo alkyd, #4 fluid set (1.8 mm). I thinned the paint by 10% w/mineral spirits and also added 5% penetrol. Still getting an orange peel finish. Any suggestions? Thanks.
This is why i like spraying waterbornes, acrylic, and latex so much better than oil. Even with a 1.4 mm tip it lays out smooth.

Also, there is no replacement for a large air tank with a good compressor. I use a 25 gallon portable compressor. So much better.
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Old 08-30-2010, 10:12 PM   #9
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This is why i like spraying waterbornes, acrylic, and latex so much better than oil. Even with a 1.4 mm tip it lays out smooth.

Also, there is no replacement for a large air tank with a good compressor. I use a 25 gallon portable compressor. So much better.
You are kidding right? Oil will lay much smoother than water base any day, but you can mess up ether one.
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Old 08-30-2010, 10:16 PM   #10
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Oil lays down great, but drys no where nears as fast. My favorite material to spray HVLP is Aura satin. Lays out like glass and drys hard.
Don't get me wrong, oil levels great, but I can get waterborne stuff to look just as good. It just takes a little fine tuning and adjusting.
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Old 08-30-2010, 10:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graypaint View Post
Trying out my new Graco 9.0, 4 stage HVLP on some old furniture. Using BM Satin Impervo alkyd, #4 fluid set (1.8 mm). I thinned the paint by 10% w/mineral spirits and also added 5% penetrol. Still getting an orange peel finish. Any suggestions? Thanks.
could be a few things,
1 holding gun to far away, you want to keep gun 10 ro 12 inches away, dial down material flow if you have to too get in closer
2 paint drying to fast, use slower solvent or retarder
3 material to heavy, thin a bit more..
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Old 08-30-2010, 10:57 PM   #12
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Consider the physics of the rig. High volume-Low pressure= larger droplets.

Turbines generate heat=faster evaporation of reducers.

Plain old unfamilialarity with new rig.

Adding of Penetrol? Why? BM's alkyd Satin Impervo should lay out flat as a cake after a 4.0 Richter quake.

BM has tech sheets on all products on the website. Many times paint clerks give out bogus information.

Look at it this way. Car and bike painters use HVLP almost exclusively anymore. They have to be doing something right.

If none of this works out, do what some others have done and use the turbine for a really upscale, outdo the neigbors, hair dryer.

Last edited by Retired; 08-30-2010 at 11:00 PM..
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Old 08-31-2010, 02:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Consider the physics of the rig. High volume-Low pressure= larger droplets.

good call

Turbines generate heat=faster evaporation of reducers.

true

Plain old unfamilialarity with new rig.

that will do it
Adding of Penetrol? Why? BM's alkyd Satin Impervo should lay out flat as a cake after a 4.0 Richter quake.

maybe

BM has tech sheets on all products on the website. Many times paint clerks give out bogus information.
thats true

Look at it this way. Car and bike painters use HVLP almost exclusively anymore. They have to be doing something right.

Yep, except automotive refinishing techs get training every year and have formulas to follow, as far as calibration (gettin dialed in) reducers, extenders, etc. Us painters sometimes don't get a proper training in using equipment with the different finishes we may want to use! (maybe thats something union painters get in those classes they got to take?)
If none of this works out, do what some others have done and use the turbine for a really upscale, outdo the neigbors, hair dryer.
anyways.
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:21 AM   #14
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anyways.
Automotive is not part of the training in the standard curriculum for apprenctices. Automotive has several levels of training for painters both union and non union that range from a simple blending jobs on a fender benders to restoration work on cars and bikes seen only in museums and concours. There are also tricks that applicators come up with that the paintmakers including Sherwin-Williams and it's other automotive and aeropace divisions never think of. Part of the skills in fine sprayed finish work is just from spraying. As an example, the painters at places like MAACO and Earl Shieb spray regularly. It is doubtful they go through any but the most simplified training yet they spray well.

Additives to carefully formulated paints and coatings in the housepainting arena IMO can be used if problems occur and need to be solved. It looks like in the specific case above, the Penetrol was just added for little or no reason other than it can be a problem solver.

We should distinguish what is available for union guys and what is mandatory. The curriculum for apprentices goes with the flow. What was valid 30-40 years ago may have value even now but the programs keep up with current methods and materials.

Journymen too have mandatory fullfillments among which are First Aid and CPR training which is recurrent. Other safety training can and does include confined space training, lifts, ect. Then there are the other parts of the craft in color matching, all forms of spray application including electrostatic and multicolor materials like Zolatone, Polomyx and Multispec and the respective methods for each. Gilding, wallcovering, graining and marbling, acid staining, application of polished plaster.

All of which are offered free of charge along with valid recognized certifications and the other benefits.

...and if a guy doesn't toe the line on all this stuff. We send out Guido and Tony in thier snapbrim hats and sharkskin suits with a couple of sacks of Redicrete in thier black Caddie.
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:54 AM   #15
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true about the turbines adding heat.. adding a whip can help cool the air some.
I love my hvlp but when i first got it, i couldnt see what all the fuss was about.
everything has a learnig curve
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:17 AM   #16
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The old learning curve..

Paint stores have demo nights for contractors. I went to take a look at my first HVLP demo, a precursor to Cap Spray. Single stage turbine with a shoulder strap, the gun was basically advanced Kirby vacuum cleaner. The hose was stiff, Looks like Tygon.. I bought the demo from the rep and he tossed in a whip.

First time out I am going to paint a door on a garage for good customer. I put the whip on the wrong end attaching it to the outlet on the turbine.

Melted it..

Still have the unit and the rebuild kits from Cap Spray work on that old rig. Hook up a long extension cord on that sucker and rough cut casing and sash with it.

Modified took an old needle from one of those Taiwanese knockoffs of a DeVilbiss sawed it off to fit lengthwise and had it machined to make the gun spatter.
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Old 10-02-2010, 02:55 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger72 View Post
Oil lays down great, but drys no where nears as fast. My favorite material to spray HVLP is Aura satin. Lays out like glass and drys hard.
Don't get me wrong, oil levels great, but I can get waterborne stuff to look just as good. It just takes a little fine tuning and adjusting.
Do you thin the Aura? I've read a few posts about Aura being incompatible to spray with HVLP but I'm encouraged to hear you have it working well. Water or Floetrol for thinning?
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Old 10-02-2010, 06:55 AM   #18
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Do you thin the Aura? I've read a few posts about Aura being incompatible to spray with HVLP but I'm encouraged to hear you have it working well. Water or Floetrol for thinning?
Reducing info on Aura should be on the BM site. Doubtful you will see using Floetral there. On these "new" type paints as well as some others that are polymers like BM StaysClear, to stay on the safe side I use distilled water. Tap water varies so much from place to place that in some cases there is content enough that the water will throw a preciptate and ya end up with a non-skid on a wall or a door.

All HVLPs do not use a turbine as an air source.
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Old 10-02-2010, 11:00 AM   #19
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Reducing info on Aura should be on the BM site. Doubtful you will see using Floetral there. On these "new" type paints as well as some others that are polymers like BM StaysClear, to stay on the safe side I use distilled water. Tap water varies so much from place to place that in some cases there is content enough that the water will throw a preciptate and ya end up with a non-skid on a wall or a door.

All HVLPs do not use a turbine as an air source.
This is correct. Some HVLP conventional guns are designed to use compressed air other then from a turbine.

Also, the gravity fed conventional guns are popular with automotive painters. You can get a variety of fluid tips for these guns that help dial in material.

As far as training, the best way to learn is spraying as much as possible. I use primarily conventional spray equipment. I am constantly adjusting my material, (epoxies mostly), in order to apply the recommended WFT, in a one or two coat application. The coatings usually require a 2.2 fluid nozzle because of the high solid materials I'm spraying.

To the OP-Keep practicing. You'll eventually become a proficient spray man.

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