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Old 01-17-2008, 09:43 PM   #1
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Default Knotholes

Need to fill the knot holes and prime/paint this, looking for some input.
What would you use?
Thanks!
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Old 01-17-2008, 09:47 PM   #2
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I "may" personally use ready patch and BIN (shellac)

I say 'may' because I'm assuming the holes arent huge, but the knots must be BINNED to be sure they don't bleed if there is any part of the knot left even if you can't see it
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Old 01-17-2008, 10:08 PM   #3
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Default Got the answer on this one

I asked the same question a few months ago. I had a few e-mails back and forth with a forum member here who does restoration work in Canada.

Now listen up, I tried the following for outside Pine knots.

1) Amber Shellac--Zinsser

2) Cover Stain--Zinseer

3) Tite Bond III Brown Carpenter's Glue--that's right glue

I tested areas with each product. As my Canadian contact said, the exterior brown carpenter's glue sealed the knots efficiently without bleed through. I applied one medium coat of Cabot's Provt Exterior Latex Stain over the primed test areas.

Results: Cover Stain bled through and was unacceptable

Amber Shellac--straight out of the can-- slight bleed

Tite-Bond--Best coverage, no bleed through

As explained to me--the glue will expand and contract with weather conditions. Shellac and other materials are more brittle, thus they will crack rather than give allowing the tannins to seep through the primer.

BTW--The glue goes on with a throw away 1 inch. Spreads in a similar way to any primer. Do not cut. Hope this helps.

I am doing a large barn restoration job this year and this tip really will make my life easier. First, I'll hand prime with the glue--then finish up with two coats ProVT via spray.

I did not use the BIN because I was lazy and figured the Amber Shellac should do pretty much the same thing. I use BIN for other purposes, and it might be fine. But, I think you will be more pleased with the lasting result of the brown glue.

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Old 01-17-2008, 11:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC Painting View Post
Need to fill the knot holes and prime/paint this, looking for some input.
What would you use?
Thanks!
Rich
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:05 PM   #5
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Dang, my neck is hurting just looking at that
Are all those "dings" actually knot holes that need to be filled?
Like with wood filler?
Ouch
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:10 PM   #6
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Rich
You would fill the knotholes with Rich?
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:14 PM   #7
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Lol...
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:17 PM   #8
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Well, looking at that pic and my neck is already hurting
I wouldn't do it myself, I'd call Rich

Get a good price to sub it out, add a little for myself, then call Rich and see if he'll do it

Quote:
Need to fill the knot holes and prime/paint this...
What would you use?
Rich
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:31 PM   #9
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Oh ok now I am with ya!
Message to builders and carpenters:
Buy a better grade of wood, it will cost you less than what you are about to pay a painter to make that mess look good. Poplar is painter friendly.
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:38 PM   #10
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How does one even quote a job like that? I'd tell 'em it's by the hour, and I don't care how long the project lasts.
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:43 PM   #11
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Thanks for the responses, yeah I need to fill the holes. When we met at the house for the bid, it wasn't up yet. HO picked wood, said there would be a few holes to fill The house is a new 6,000 sq ft farmhouse, lots of work.
Here is another pic.
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:45 PM   #12
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Its a bad scene. Everything about that deal is wrong. Bad looking wood. Should have been installed with the BIN work done and preprimed for two obvious reasons. The painter could do that alot more efficiently and ergonomically on sawhorses. And being tongue and groove, as the wood expands and contracts there is the risk of seeing where the painter couldnt get. Ceilings like that are nutbusters. I'd budget in several trips to the chiropractor.
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Old 01-18-2008, 12:36 AM   #13
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bin shellac and lay it on heavy because with that many knots i see flashing in the future...i would try to convince them it would look bad painted no matter what and have u seal it..lol
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Old 01-18-2008, 07:25 AM   #14
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John would use me....and I'd do it too! I like this kind of stuff.

I've done the exterior underside of a porch where the knots needed 4+ coats (we finally got so sick of doing them by hand, we got rattle cans to finish)
....and some of them still bled

you are definitely in for a 'fun' time...like others said, bid well-preferably by the hour
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Old 01-18-2008, 09:20 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vermontpainter View Post
Its a bad scene. Everything about that deal is wrong. Bad looking wood. Should have been installed with the BIN work done and preprimed for two obvious reasons. The painter could do that alot more efficiently and ergonomically on sawhorses. And being tongue and groove, as the wood expands and contracts there is the risk of seeing where the painter couldnt get. Ceilings like that are nutbusters. I'd budget in several trips to the chiropractor.
Ayep!

"Z paint bin shellac and lay it on heavy because with that many knots i see flashing in the future...i would try to convince them it would look bad painted no matter what and have u seal it..lol"

tried

"Rich John would use me....and I'd do it too! I like this kind of stuff.
Like a working vacation in Utah?"

Thanks guys, It's going to be a lot of work for me and my guys. The HO is very nice and specific about what she wants and willing to pay for it.
I am still debating on what to fill the holes with. She wants a smooth look.
Looks like I have to learn how to do multiple quotes!
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Old 01-18-2008, 09:21 AM   #16
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ok triple post!

Last edited by RCP; 01-18-2008 at 08:17 PM..
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Old 01-18-2008, 09:22 AM   #17
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oops, double post
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Old 01-18-2008, 10:01 AM   #18
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I see now
This homeowner made a few big big mistakes
(at least I can't for the life of me think of why they did them on purpose)

They went with the cheaper wood (lower grade, more knots and holes) thinking they'd save money because it was "...just being painted anyway"
This is not true, as the labor and product to properly paint this is way more than if it were "clear" wood

They installed it before having it shellacked, filled, primed, and first coated, thus adding even more labor to the bill...lots more labor...and PITA labor too

That being said, I'd fill it, sand it, BIN it, re-fill it (the spots that need it), prime it, paint it
Obviously it's not going to be as easy as that sentence makes it sound

The fill and sand is going to be tough, being upside down and all
As much as I like Elmer wood filler, it will sag horribly when up-side down
I'd try Minwax Wood Filler, that tends to cling better
Works well in odd upside down spots where Elmer's sags
But I've never had to use so much upside before
Might want to try a few spots first just to make sure
You just don't want t e using a two-part epoxy on this thing if you don;t have to (time consuming and over-kill for the non-structural fill job)

The re-fill after the BIN, I'm just assuming it will need some to be nice and flat
Depending on how it comes out, spackle or joint compound may be an option
Maybe you won't need this, but I'd plan for it in the bid/time estimate anyway
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Old 01-18-2008, 11:47 AM   #19
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no matter what u do it will not look good being filled in w/ wood putty or anything else you might try....The not holes are close to the tounge and grooves and it is my experience that no matter how hard you try it never looks right....what cant you ask them to just paint it without filling in holes considering it is a farmhouse....im sorry that forget that she said ahe wanted it smooth but no matter it will look like crap!!! what sheen level does she want?? If shes going w/ anything other then flat you really have problems!!!
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Old 01-18-2008, 03:51 PM   #20
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Oh by the way, is that sombitch blind nailed or do you get to fill face nails too?
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