New smooth cedar exterior spindles and rails - Paint Talk

DeanV · 05-05-2009, 07:22 PM

I am pricing out a new hand rails and spindles for a cottage deck. We are looking at over 200 spindles plus railing. It will all be new, smooth cedar. Usually, I am repainting already finished spindles and fighting peeling on the top rail. Now, I have the opportunity to start fresh. What do you think is the best system for new spindles?

1. Oil primer (Benjamin Moore 094) and 2 coats of acrylic stain.
2. Oil primer (094) and 2 coats of acrylic paint
3. 3 coats of solid oil stain
4. Solid color decking stain (cabot's)
5. Other

From what I have seen, they all fail eventually. Stain seems the easiest to fix when it does. Paint can last pretty well sometime, but also seems to cause the wood to rot from the inside out from the butt ends of spindles and other wood pieces. Solid decking stain may be a good option, but who has not seen that peel also, shoot that stuff builds as much of a film as any paint. What is your take?

vermontpainter · 05-05-2009, 07:55 PM

Dean

Make sure they are dry, alot of the time they are not. Sand out the mill glaze to open the grain, then 2 coats of Cabot semi solid oil should do well and be the easiest to maintain.

tsunamicontract · 05-05-2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vermontpainter

Dean

Make sure they are dry, alot of the time they are not. Sand out the mill glaze to open the grain, then 2 coats of Cabot semi solid oil should do well and be the easiest to maintain.

scott, thats kind of what I was thinking but not sure if Dean wants a painted look (smooth, painted look) which is not exactly what a semi solid oil will give you.

MAK-Deco · 05-05-2009, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vermontpainter

Dean

Make sure they are dry, alot of the time they are not. Sand out the mill glaze to open the grain, then 2 coats of Cabot semi solid oil should do well and be the easiest to maintain.

Do you think that will block / stop tannin bleed?

MAK-Deco · 05-05-2009, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeanV

I am pricing out a new hand rails and spindles for a cottage deck. We are looking at over 200 spindles plus railing. It will all be new, smooth cedar. Usually, I am repainting already finished spindles and fighting peeling on the top rail. Now, I have the opportunity to start fresh. What do you think is the best system for new spindles?

1. Oil primer (Benjamin Moore 094) and 2 coats of acrylic stain.
2. Oil primer (094) and 2 coats of acrylic paint
3. 3 coats of solid oil stain
4. Solid color decking stain (cabot's)
5. Other

From what I have seen, they all fail eventually. Stain seems the easiest to fix when it does. Paint can last pretty well sometime, but also seems to cause the wood to rot from the inside out from the butt ends of spindles and other wood pieces. Solid decking stain may be a good option, but who has not seen that peel also, shoot that stuff builds as much of a film as any paint. What is your take?

If you can still get BM Oil primer 100 it penetrates better than 94. We just did some new siding with BM 100 and solid acrylic on top it looked great. we have gone back to the slow dry oil on cedar sucks waiting for drying but it really penetrates raw cedar.

vermontpainter · 05-05-2009, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAK-Deco

Do you think that will block / stop tannin bleed?

No, nothing really will. Thats why semi solid is cool, the wood grain still shoes, it lets wood be wood. If the color isnt white or yellow or light blue, it should be fine. Many of the organic colors actually camoflauge tannin bleed pretty well.

DeanV · 05-05-2009, 08:49 PM

I did not think of that approach. I have actually used that on a porch floor before that they wanted solid but instead did two coats of a semi-solid, so it would not peel easily. Worked great and looked almost solid (light green color).

Currently, they are solid, painted white, but it would be worth working up a sample at least to see if it would work for them.

DeanV · 05-05-2009, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAK-Deco

If you can still get BM Oil primer 100 it penetrates better than 94. We just did some new siding with BM 100 and solid acrylic on top it looked great. we have gone back to the slow dry oil on cedar sucks waiting for drying but it really penetrates raw cedar.

My dealer is not real big on the 100 primer, since it is so difficult to spread. That is some thick stuff. I always thought 100 was geared for paint and not as good at controlling tannins. At least that is what I heard

DeanV · 05-05-2009, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vermontpainter

No, nothing really will. Thats why semi solid is cool, the wood grain still shoes, it lets wood be wood. If the color isnt white or yellow or light blue, it should be fine. Many of the organic colors actually camoflauge tannin bleed pretty well.

These are going white though.

vermontpainter · 05-05-2009, 08:55 PM

Cabot has a good oil primer that does help a little with tannin bleed.

ParagonVA · 05-05-2009, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vermontpainter

Cabot has a good oil primer that does help a little with tannin bleed.

Is this the one they suggest for hard to cover areas before applying the solid hide Pro V.T.? If so, that system works super well. I used it a while back, (not sure if it's been reformulated since), and those pickets were SO white

MAK-Deco · 05-05-2009, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vermontpainter

Cabot has a good oil primer that does help a little with tannin bleed.

at least here where Cabot's oil went to a quick dry it hasn't worked as well and we stopped using it.

Dean,

100 penetrates cedar really well and seems to seal tannin as good for quick dry at least for us.

I wouldn't use it on all ready coated stuff as it would take forever and a day to dry and is very shiny on prev. coated surfaces.

NACE · 05-06-2009, 08:38 AM

How long has the cedar been exposed to UV? If there is any graying or exposure more than 30 days the degradation of lignin and cellulose has began, forming an unstable surface. This should be removed. Long oil primers have better penetration but longer dry. 100 contains a mildewcide as well. 094 is great too with shorter dry times, less film build. What is the construction like? Will there be areas that may need a sealant applied to prevent capillary moisture from wicking up from butt joints? Can a coating be applied to prevent bleed at these junctures? What is the moisture content of the wood in random areas? Can sharp edges be smoothed or chamfered to insure better adhesion on sharp edges? Just some thoughts.

DeanV · 05-06-2009, 05:59 PM

The railings have not been built yet. The builder will build the sections, then I will finish the sections prior to installation. He will apply some primer or sealer to the butt joints before assembling. Edges can be broken (they will be square spindles).

MNpainter · 05-06-2009, 10:35 PM

Dean. I have had good luck on Cedar with BM solid oil stain topped with BM solid Latex.
steve