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Pre Primed New Door Preparation

20K views 44 replies 14 participants last post by  ridesarize 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
We just finished a project painting cabinets and interior doors for a customer. The doors were purchased independently by the customer and they worked with a door company to purchase the doors and deliver them to our place to spray. The doors came pre-primed. Our estimate was to lightly sand and apply two coats of Pro Classic Oil. The customer is now saying he is unhappy with the appearance of the joints where two pieces of wood meet up and is withholding payment for the job.

My question for you is if a door comes pre-primed, would you expect yourself to have to sand down joints if there is any variance in the joint? Or, fill joints with bondo/wood filler if there is any gap between the joint?

I believe you will always see where two pieces of wood join together if the door isnt one solid piece and I would say 99% of people would say the joints are acceptable but either way I would appreciate your input. Also, keep in mind these pictures are taken by the homeowner from 1ft away.





 
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#2 ·
i run a piece of sandpaper over all the doors i paint not only i give it a scratch but to feel problems like this. the worst part about that seam is that you can only see half of it which is distracting, you have more of a case if you can see a consistent line. are all the joint lines that bad?


i just looked at the second pic, doesnt look that bad to me, i think the owner has issues with the doors
 
#3 ·
Id say at random maybe half the doors have joints like that and they vary in size. I contacted the dealer and manufacturer to see what they recommend for finishing and multiple dealers said they are finish ready.. light sand and top coat is all thats needed.
 
#4 ·
We just finished a project painting cabinets and interior doors for a customer. The doors were purchased independently by the customer and they worked with a door company to purchase the doors and deliver them to our place to spray. The doors came pre-primed. Our estimate was to lightly sand and apply two coats of Pro Classic Oil. The customer is now saying he is unhappy with the appearance of the joints where two pieces of wood meet up and is withholding payment for the job.

My question for you is if a door comes pre-primed, would you expect yourself to have to sand down joints if there is any variance in the joint? Or, fill joints with bondo/wood filler if there is any gap between the joint?

I believe you will always see where two pieces of wood join together if the door isnt one solid piece and I would say 99% of people would say the joints are acceptable but either way I would appreciate your input. Also, keep in mind these pictures are taken by the homeowner from 1ft away.



http://www.painttalk.com/members/alltimate-painting-13183/albums/doors/5713-door-3.jpg

http://www.painttalk.com/members/alltimate-painting-13183/albums/doors/5705-door-2.jpg
I always machine sand those doors and I have the exact same ones on this job right now. I am going to smear Elmer's carpenter filler across the joints and orbital the doors down with 220 grit.. I always prime this stuff so no harm to sand them flat and expose some mdf. Caulk too.
 
#6 ·
So you would assume that despite it being a pre-primed door you would fill these joints if there is a void and machine sand everything down? It would be my expectation that all the joints fit tightly and if there are any raised edges the manufacturer sands their joints before they prime them.
 
#5 · (Edited)
F*ck that. I always put it in my contract, that painters sanding is NOT carpenter sanding. I would absolutely fight that. You were delivered substandard doors, and you did what you said you were going to do.

That being said, Im going to learn from your lesson to inspect all doors, and bring defects like that to someones attention and sign off on either an acceptance, send back, or extra charge to wood filler and reprime them all.

Unless stated otherwise, a painters job is only to smooth sand the surface. The door company is at fault, but since you painted them, you may be liable. I'd at least try to get whoever ordered the doors to meet you half way.
 
#9 ·
Honestly, I anticipate that from the get go. I can't think of any new, wood, pre primed door that didn't require additional prep on site that I've ever dealt with. The intent is to make those doors look like the cabinet doors I assume? Nice, tight joints and such....i woulda scuffed, filled, sanded, primed and 2 coats of finish. And that would be been included in the estimate. Eventually they will crack out (probably) and that's job security down the road. Half the battle is asthetics....always make sure you are completely aware of the hos goals and these problems can be avoided. The tuition in this trade is more expensive than a traditional classroom unfortunately...sorry.:/


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#11 ·
I understand what you are saying but I think that discussion should be had between the door manufacturer and the customer. If the customer was expecting perfectly jointed doors and viewed perfectly jointed doors at the dealers shop then they should have produced that. There should have been a guideline or agreement between those two in terms of what is an acceptable door. If the door company said a pre-primed door will need re-work on all the joints then I would have at least had the option to bid it for that. They said a light sand and painting is all thats needed which is all we did so we assumed the doors as delivered were what the customer was expecting.
 
#14 ·
youd fill every seam so they all disappear? that would take hours, it can be done but is it worth/necessary putting a bunch of mud on a brand new door? sounds like someones trying to put the burden of a cheap door on the painter. its worth noting i have no idea what you are charging
 
#16 ·
Filling seams goes quick because those are super shallow, so much so that the primer itself being sanded would level them out. Regular filler is hardly necessary actually on those, but maybe lacquer putty like I said.
 

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#15 ·
So what to do about this new construction, raw Fir exterior front door I just painted?
I was told to paint the door.. not to prime it though. Do I ask permission to prep it and prime it? No, if it needs it, I do it.

Am I to assume a custom Fir door is ready to paint with minimal time or prep because the clients also assumed that? Do I assume the "new" wood doesn't need sanding because, it's "new", the window glazing doesn't need to be removed from the glass because it's the door guy's fault, any splinters or dings don't get fixed because people shouldn't have damaged it, the wood grain opening up and causing hairline cracks is the builders fault for having all the delays, (not his fault).?

Well, no, I set nails, remove excess window glazing, prep it all, sand it all, clean and caulk it all, oil prime it all. then lacquer putty most of it, sand, clean and prime all with acrylic XIM Bonding Primer, then double top coat. I'm not calling the client or builder to get them to accept those shortcuts.

And I wasn't going to short cut it myself and have it fail, not worth it in the long run.
 
#21 ·
The homeowner certainly could have bought better made doors, but at some point they have to be made to understand that there is only so much prep that you should be expected to do based on your contract. If you were contracted to do the finish millwork as well as the painting then you are responsible to make the doors as perfect as possible. If the contract was for an industry standard paint finish, with no stipulation that you were responsible for the quality of the door construction, then prime, light sand, and topcoat is all you are responsible for. With the piss poor quality of doors being sold these days (full disclosure i worked as a high end door salesman for about a year and a half before i started in the paint business) i would be sure to find out what exactly the client desires. Yes you can do the extra work to make a cheap door look almost perfect but you aren't going to do it for free. That's the gist of what i am saying. And as already noted there is going to be some movement of that joint regardless of how well filled and sanded it is so there actually isn't supposed to be a perfectly smooth joint there. It is supposed to be there so the wood can move as the temp and humidity changes, so filling it and sanding it is long term a waste of time and energy. If the client doesn't want to see a joint there, they should buy another type of door material.
 
#22 ·
I agree.... Our contract specially states what we were going to produce based on painting a pre primed as is door. I suppose if you're working by the hour as another user stated then sure....make the door look perfect at all cost, you'll just make more so why not. In the world of producing bids/estimates based on a specific scope of work then we have to adhere to that scope of work or we wont make any money.
 
#23 ·
door stile woes

I've tried wood bondo and lacquer putty, and nothing seems to prevent it. At least 2-3 doors in a midsize kitchen always seems to have a stile or rail that twists or shrinks causing a gap.

I asked what the ultimate solution was for this and the door supplier showed me some MDF doors that are CNC milled and seamless, so this is what I'm encouraging my clients to use now. Less hassle and headache for everyone, though getting a glassy finish with MDF takes a lot of undercoater/primer. I'm all WB now, so I use BM's Super Spec Enamel Undercoater and it doesn't swell the MDF nearly as bad as anything else out there; sands great too. Then DE Aristoshield or PPG Breakthrough 250 over the top, bam! Rock solid.

I too always re-prime everything; cheap insurance.

Also, my recommendation is to have at least 3 grades of finishing, and a through explanation of what each grade entails as far as prep and final appearance. Having visuals is optimal of course. Ask a door supplier for 3-5 paint grade shaker doors (14" square does the trick at $25-$35 a pop), and finish them all with different processes, products and levels of finish. This will save you SOOOO much frustration in the long run. Your clients can select the finish you want, sign off on the contract and then it's all smooth sailing from there.

I don't guarantee assembled doors anymore, no matter what finish. I have several samples from jobs that were replaced showing the issues that arise either immediately or several years down the road.
 
#25 ·
I can see both sides of this coin and the debate can go on forever. Like someone mentioned, take this as a learning tool for future jobs. Keep those pictures on file and let your future clients know that the joints on new doors will typically look like this without any additional prep and if you would like the joints to be completely filled and leveled there is an upcharge. Win win situation approaching it in this manner.
 
#32 · (Edited)
That's interior millwork, if if shows on a camera picture, it's very noticeable in person.
A little different than exterior work or painting walls.

Example - I have done pre-prime MDF Millwork where the Builder did not want us to sand the factory primer and then he told us to barely sand our primer but then complained and said our finish paint was all orange peely. I told him no that's the factory primer that we didn't sand down and that's our other primer that you wouldn't let us and down. You could see smoother stuff by nail holes that prove that the sanded primer was better.
 
#34 ·
Communication, communication, communication. To me the pics show a millwork issue, not so much a painting one. And the thing is, many people wouldn't have an issue with something like that whereas others... So it's important to know what their expectation are going to be.

I prefer to bid doors once I've seen them so issues like this can be discussed prior. But that's not always possible or practical. So, bid for the possible unknown and also communicate that to the customer. Usually turns out that in a group of doors some will need extra attention and others very little so it typically evens out. But at least that way there are no surprises and rarely a concerned HO.
 
#41 ·
Those doors are not very good.

Customer provided materials finished per manufacturer specs. Not your fault they bought crappy doors.

That said, I might have given them a look over before painting and pointed out the issues. Usually, you're on the hook after putting finish on. Most every material warranty has that clause.
 
#42 ·
I won't spam by posting another video now, but my sanding video came out pretty good I think. I mean it's simple, but straight forward, skilled tradesman action, without talking. The festool ets ec with 220 did damn good on these doors.
The wood filler at the seams sanded out quickly.
2 doors, all sides machine and hand sanded, 5 and a quarter minutes. Shows the results of the prepped seams up close.

You can find it on my channel, or the filler video has a link
 
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