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Old 06-17-2008, 09:45 PM   #1
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Default Stain Over Paint

Hello All--

Question--How advisable is it to use a solid body (oil or latex) stain over a previously painted exterior? If preperation and priming is done correctly, does it matter. All thoughts and ideas are solicited. Thanks.

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Old 06-17-2008, 10:13 PM   #2
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It probably will not harm anything as long has the adhesion is sufficient, it should just function like a flat paint. How ever, if it was painted already, spec the job for the proper product and put paint on it. It will be cover better, apply better, etc.

One stain I use, by Graham is marketed as stain/flat house paint. Most companies do not do it this way though. The flat paint and stain are separate products.

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Old 06-17-2008, 10:17 PM   #3
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I often use solid stain for certain re-paints
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Old 06-17-2008, 10:54 PM   #4
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Cabots ProVt is basically a flat house paint. When you go to there site and also look on there tinting charts, ProVT is listed as flat and "the finish" is listed as low luster. So it shouldn't be a problem.
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Old 06-17-2008, 11:20 PM   #5
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Cabot dealer can also custom tint their solid stains to suit your customers taste.
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Old 06-17-2008, 11:52 PM   #6
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One of the biggest down sides to using stain is that it just doesn't last as long as paint. If it is already painted I would keep it painted for longevity.
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:35 AM   #7
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A stain won't penetrate the wood at all if it has been previously painted, so what would be the point of using solid stain instead of paint? Seems kind of pointless. I'm on the team that says use paint over paint.
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Old 06-18-2008, 07:41 AM   #8
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Same here paint over paint. Stain only makes sense if it is able to penetrate the wood. You would not get the same amount of "good" coverage as you would with paint.
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Old 06-18-2008, 11:19 AM   #9
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Paint it definitely. Stain, basically, is just thin paint. It is thinned to increase penetration. It would be defeating the purpose, and adhesion won't be ideal either.
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Old 06-18-2008, 03:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTP View Post
Hello All--

Question--How advisable is it to use a solid body (oil or latex) stain over a previously painted exterior? If preperation and priming is done correctly, does it matter. All thoughts and ideas are solicited. Thanks.

JTP
Oil stain will not penetrate or be accepted by the latex paint. It'll just run off and leave a mess. Latex stain is nothing more than watered down paint. I've never had a paint company or rep able to tell me the difference. If it's painted, paint it again....Priming it will make the stain (oil) run off even quicker. hope this helps
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Old 06-18-2008, 05:27 PM   #11
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Default JTP Clarifies Question

I do re-paints. Here, where I work--I must do extensive scraping and prep in order to get ready to re-paint. Many homes I do have at least 1/2 of the total square footage down to bare wood.

I usually scrape, feather sand, spot prime and top coat twice. Was just wondering, giving this situation if the staining idea as opposed to painting ideas was better or worse.

I generally re-paint over paint and re-stain-over stain as most of you suggested is the usual method. I did not realize that stain was just watered down paint. Not being a chemist or up on paint/stain technology, I thought stain and paint (latex and oil base) were significantly different in formulation.

Thanks for all the input so far.

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Old 06-18-2008, 07:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyfromthenorth View Post
Paint it definitely. Stain, basically, is just thin paint. It is thinned to increase penetration. It would be defeating the purpose, and adhesion won't be ideal either.
If you ever used Cabots solid color stain... it ain't thin! its flat paint! there really is no difference between solid color and flat paint these days.
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Old 06-18-2008, 08:54 PM   #13
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Default These Statements Are Inaccurate

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunamicontract View Post
One of the biggest down sides to using stain is that it just doesn't last as long as paint.
Stain wears differently then paint
Maybe in specific environments paint may last longer
None that I've lived/worked in though

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purdygirl View Post
A stain won't penetrate the wood at all if it has been previously painted...
...and the coating is in great condition
It might not
I also would generally consider more paint for that app
However, on poor substrates the stain can penetrate the coating, and even the wood
Keep in mind your not always looking to penetrate the wood either

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Originally Posted by acrylicrecoating View Post
...You would not get the same amount of "good" coverage as you would with paint.
What's "good" coverage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyfromthenorth View Post
Stain, basically, is just thin paint. It is thinned to increase penetration. It would be defeating the purpose, and adhesion won't be ideal either.
Solid stain is not just thinned paint
What purpose is being defeated?
Adhesion is just fine thanks

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Originally Posted by painterdude View Post
Oil stain will not penetrate or be accepted by the latex paint. It'll just run off and leave a mess. Latex stain is nothing more than watered down paint.
Again not sure where the thinned paint thing is from
The alkyd (hybrid) solid stains I use penetrate and are accepted by the latex paint just fine
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Old 06-18-2008, 08:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAK-Deco View Post
If you ever used Cabots solid color stain... it ain't thin!
Yeah no crap
Try some Rubol and tell me it's 'thinned paint'
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Old 06-18-2008, 09:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slickshift View Post
Yeah no crap
Try some Rubol and tell me it's 'thinned paint'

Yeah that's true... and pricey too boot!
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Old 06-18-2008, 09:27 PM   #16
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Slick

I'm not sure if this is just one of those threads that gets off track with some misinformation, or if its such an accessible topic that everyone has a strong opinion on it.

My first instinct was to weigh in with my belief that paints are great and stains are great depending on the application. Stains are not thinned down paints. Sometimes there can be something a little weird about putting one over the other. I definitely find that the Provt type products, although lacking in color retention characteristics, they fade rather than flake and peel, which to me is the more desirable effect in the new england elements.

Now, someone will come in and say:

"Heck we put Provt on a dozen barn sashes in Billings and they all peeled the next damn day."

And some smart guy will come in and say

"Well the OVT solid oil doesnt stick to nothing and besides it drips out of my 4 inch Purdy White Doves so bad that I had to get Purdy to custom craft a 5 1/2 inch XL-Pro-Glide just so I could hold enough stain"

...and someone else will say:

"Cabots The Finish is a good one but I have to get special fiber optic lined speeflo .012 tips to get it to atomize properly and hold up to the silicon fortification of the Finish, and even so, over time the capillary action of the silicon on the pistons isnt worth the risk"

and some other little troll will crawl out from the bridge he sleeps under and say something clever like:

"uuhh while varm doun hear in da drawl whee maik are owne stayn up ta Ma Parka Farm in da planez wheneva won uv da halfers dye wee taik da inteernl organz an sqweez um inta sap bukkits an it amazein how mony difrent colerz ya ken git outta won ded cow...now dat stuf do penertait a nun frum a hunerd yardz!!"


Good night
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vermontpainter View Post
and some other little troll will crawl out from the bridge he sleeps under and say something clever like:

"uuhh while varm doun hear in da drawl whee maik are owne stayn up ta Ma Parka Farm in da planez wheneva won uv da halfers dye wee taik da inteernl organz an sqweez um inta sap bukkits an it amazein how mony difrent colerz ya ken git outta won ded cow...now dat stuf do penertait a nun frum a hunerd yardz!!"


Good night
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vermontpainter View Post
...I definitely find that the Provt type products, although lacking in color retention characteristics, they fade rather than flake and peel, which to me is the more desirable effect in the new england elements.
Most of the solid stains fade rather than peel
Usually that's what we're looking for when using a solid stain
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vermontpainter View Post
"uuhh while varm doun hear in da drawl whee maik are owne stayn up ta Ma Parka Farm in da planez wheneva won uv da halfers dye wee taik da inteernl organz an sqweez um inta sap bukkits an it amazein how mony difrent colerz ya ken git outta won ded cow...now dat stuf do penertait a nun frum a hunerd yardz!!"
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lps1aUGPG-E[/YOUTUBE]
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:34 PM   #20
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Stain over paint will not resist peeling IMHO since it will not function like stain over paint. I suppose if there was a large amount of peeling paint removed, that it might be worth converting to stain, instead of paint. Stain is the way I go whenever possible on my exterior jobs (over existing stain).

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