Using Shellac primer to seal nicotine stains/odors - Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum > Professional Painters > Surface Preparation and Application

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-10-2012, 08:33 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
mpminter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Groton, CT
Posts: 942
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 290
Thanked 493 Times in 280 Posts
View mpminter's Photo Album My Photos
Default Using Shellac primer to seal nicotine stains/odors

I'm bidding on a job that has heavy nicotine damage (3 packs a day for 20 years). The plan is to shoot the walls, ceilings, trim and floors in the entire place with a generous coat of BIN to seal in the stains and odors. My question is, should I back roll the BIN, or just spray it? Also, I have only ever used BIN as a spot primer in the past, and have never sprayed the stuff. Because of how thin it is, I'm thinking a .013-.015 tip. Is that about right? Thanks for the input!
mpminter is offline   Reply With Quote

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. PaintTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Old 10-10-2012, 08:55 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
kdpaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,418
Rewards Points: 588
Thanks: 709
Thanked 725 Times in 493 Posts
View kdpaint's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I think it might be hard to get it uniform and it does run, so backrolling with an 18 would be good. Or just an 18 or 3. And spraying BIN at 50-60 a gallon is pricey, you would use a lot of product. It does not go far rolling it, spraying might be really low sqft coverage. All those flammable fumes too...better not flick the lights too much!
kdpaint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 09:10 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
mpminter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Groton, CT
Posts: 942
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 290
Thanked 493 Times in 280 Posts
View mpminter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

There's no question the stuff smells, and it's definitely thin. I may have to do two light coats and I'll probably have to keep the sprayer pressure turned down pretty low. That's why I'm thinking a smaller tip might be just the thing.
mpminter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 10:25 PM   #4
semi retired painter
 
painterdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sumter, SC
Posts: 230
Rewards Points: 150
Thanks: 18
Thanked 29 Times in 24 Posts
View painterdude's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Coverstain...sprays great. If you're good, no need to backroll. Will lock in nicotine. Floors? pd
painterdude is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to painterdude For This Useful Post:
TJ Paint (10-10-2012)
Old 10-10-2012, 10:33 PM   #5
Almost Gone
 
TJ Paint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Wind River Range
Posts: 10,301
Rewards Points: 238
Thanks: 4,598
Thanked 5,877 Times in 3,512 Posts
View TJ Paint's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I was going to ask about the floors too. If they don't get done, the odor will still be there.

I use coverstain on things like this. So much more user friendly and less than half the price of BIN.

Use a small tip for BIN. I'd have a roller handy for any runs that may develop.
__________________
TJ Paint is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 10:45 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: baltimore md.
Posts: 1,099
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 124
Thanked 442 Times in 297 Posts
View wills fresh coat's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpminter View Post
I'm bidding on a job that has heavy nicotine damage (3 packs a day for 20 years). The plan is to shoot the walls, ceilings, trim and floors in the entire place with a generous coat of BIN to seal in the stains and odors. My question is, should I back roll the BIN, or just spray it? Also, I have only ever used BIN as a spot primer in the past, and have never sprayed the stuff. Because of how thin it is, I'm thinking a .013-.015 tip. Is that about right? Thanks for the input!
Spray it with a 411 or 413
wills fresh coat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 10:53 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
mpminter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Groton, CT
Posts: 942
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 290
Thanked 493 Times in 280 Posts
View mpminter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

As I said in the OP, I will be spraying the floors as well. I would use coverstain, but I don't trust it as much as I do shellac. will the CS seal in the odor like the BIN will? I've used BIN to block pet odors and it worked awesome!
mpminter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 07:11 AM   #8
Home Painting Specialists
 
Custom Brush Co.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 230
Rewards Points: 150
Thanks: 147
Thanked 136 Times in 72 Posts
View Custom Brush Co.'s Photo Album My Photos
Default

Use fine finish tip by graco 4-10. Evenly fog coat (move slower at a greater distance from the wall). No back-rolling.
__________________
Painting is never as easy as it seams. Then as soon as you think you know everything you soon realize the path has just begun.
Custom Brush Co. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 10:57 AM   #9
RH
Moderator
 
RH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,259
Rewards Points: 3,216
Thanks: 7,457
Thanked 9,922 Times in 5,316 Posts
View RH's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpminter View Post
As I said in the OP, I will be spraying the floors as well. I would use coverstain, but I don't trust it as much as I do shellac. will the CS seal in the odor like the BIN will? I've used BIN to block pet odors and it worked awesome!
For me it would come down to quantity. Coverstain would be fine for some nicotine jobs but if it's really bad BIN is insurance. Don't think I've ever had a stain, or odor, come back through that stuff. As for back rolling, guess it would depend on the texture. Smooth to light orange peel just spray. Anything else may need back rolling.
__________________
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."

Groucho Marx
RH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 11:27 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
Posts: 6,636
Rewards Points: 3,051
Thanks: 6,105
Thanked 4,852 Times in 2,730 Posts
View CApainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Pigmented shellac based products have a thin mil requirement and should not be applied thicker then recommended. I would spray BIN on it without back rolling. Sometimes back rolling will pull the nicotine contaminate to the surface of the primer. Think encapsulation for stain and order control.
CApainter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 11:32 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
Posts: 6,636
Rewards Points: 3,051
Thanks: 6,105
Thanked 4,852 Times in 2,730 Posts
View CApainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I find Bin to dissipate it's solvents and odors quicker then an oil base primer, even though initially it has a stronger and much more volatile vapor and odor. Fans and OV respirator are a requirement with that much spraying.
CApainter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 12:30 PM   #12
RH
Moderator
 
RH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,259
Rewards Points: 3,216
Thanks: 7,457
Thanked 9,922 Times in 5,316 Posts
View RH's Photo Album My Photos
Default

It's been a long time since I've sprayed a complete interior with BIN and likely never will again. But if I was at a point where I was going to do any of it at all I wouldn't hesitate to invest in a fresh air respirator system. Those brain cells will come in handy some day.

If some of you young guys learn nothing else from us old farts here at PT it's that it's never too soon to start protecting your health. At one time we all thought we were invincible too.
__________________
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."

Groucho Marx
RH is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to RH For This Useful Post:
MIZZOU (12-01-2012), playedout6 (12-03-2012), TJ Paint (10-11-2012)
Old 10-11-2012, 12:43 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
mpminter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Groton, CT
Posts: 942
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 290
Thanked 493 Times in 280 Posts
View mpminter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I have a properly fitted respirator with organic vapor cartridges, but am I reading that you don't feel as though that will be sufficient?
mpminter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 01:20 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
mpminter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Groton, CT
Posts: 942
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 290
Thanked 493 Times in 280 Posts
View mpminter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Update: Just looked up the MSDS for BIN and talked to a technical representative at Rustoleum. They recommend a full or half face respirator with organic vapor cartridges. I like the idea of supplied air, but I don't see how it fits into the budget. If that's what was recommended I would have adjusted my estimate to absorb the cost, but I'm gonna stick with the manufacturers recommendations on this one.
mpminter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 01:38 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
kdpaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,418
Rewards Points: 588
Thanks: 709
Thanked 725 Times in 493 Posts
View kdpaint's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Wasn't kidding about combustion hazard, All that vaporized alcohol and "other stuff" BIN has and cigarettes and/or furnace turning on could be bad.
kdpaint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 02:01 PM   #16
RH
Moderator
 
RH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,259
Rewards Points: 3,216
Thanks: 7,457
Thanked 9,922 Times in 5,316 Posts
View RH's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpminter View Post
Update: Just looked up the MSDS for BIN and talked to a technical representative at Rustoleum. They recommend a full or half face respirator with organic vapor cartridges. I like the idea of supplied air, but I don't see how it fits into the budget. If that's what was recommended I would have adjusted my estimate to absorb the cost, but I'm gonna stick with the manufacturers recommendations on this one.
No it probably isn't suggested as a requirement but just thinking back to my years in the business, I think it would have been a wise investment that might have better protected me in a variety of situations over the years.

We may think nothing of spending top dollar for quality spray units and dustless sanding systems that will allow us to improve the quality of our work but will likely balk at spending money on something like this - that's just human nature. And please don't think this isn't meant to be a criticism aimed at you MP - it's not. Hell, I never owned one myself. Just an observation on what we typically tend to place value on.
__________________
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."

Groucho Marx
RH is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to RH For This Useful Post:
kdpaint (10-11-2012)
Old 10-11-2012, 02:36 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
Posts: 6,636
Rewards Points: 3,051
Thanks: 6,105
Thanked 4,852 Times in 2,730 Posts
View CApainter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Fresh air supplied respiratory systems can get pretty expensive, starting with around $500 for an MSA respirator. Then you have to get an air monitored breathing box that's OSHA compliant, and a quality portable compressor that'll supply the required CFM to maintain what I believe is something around 20 psi. I don't really know the psi requirement. Usually, I just crank up the air to the max, and adjust my inline air conditioning unit as needed.
CApainter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 07:28 PM   #18
semi retired painter
 
painterdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sumter, SC
Posts: 230
Rewards Points: 150
Thanks: 18
Thanked 29 Times in 24 Posts
View painterdude's Photo Album My Photos
Default

still haven't figured out why you're painting the floors. What kind of floor and what kind of unit is it. You can clean floors. Painting floors? pd
painterdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 07:50 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
mpminter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Groton, CT
Posts: 942
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 290
Thanked 493 Times in 280 Posts
View mpminter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by painterdude View Post
still haven't figured out why you're painting the floors. What kind of floor and what kind of unit is it. You can clean floors. Painting floors? pd
I'm not painting the floors, I'm just priming them. Smells such as nicotine can work their way into a porous surface like wood, so I am priming the floors to seal in the odor. Shellac and shellac based primers are excellent for sealing in smoke, nicotine, and pet odors and are widely used by restoration specialists. Besides, It'll take me alot less time to shoot the floors with a coat of primer than it would to scrub them all down with Krud Kutter or TSP.
mpminter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 09:35 PM   #20
Paint to fish
 
DeanV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MI
Posts: 7,977
Rewards Points: 2,330
Thanks: 800
Thanked 3,987 Times in 2,203 Posts
View DeanV's Photo Album My Photos
Default

D you have a coworker? I have heard from toooo many painters stories about a guy wearing a respirator passing out in an attic spraying Kilz or BIN in an attic or similar on fire jobs. They would rotate being spray man, but sometimes the pump would go silent and they would need to pull one painter out and send another in. Not cool.
DeanV is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DeanV For This Useful Post:
Neese's Painting (12-01-2012)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Painting over nicotine stains painter1986 General Painting Discussion 30 10-03-2012 08:38 AM
primer for nicotine stained ceilings and walls ltd Tools, Supplies and Equipment 31 02-07-2011 06:29 PM
A recognizable increased sensitivity to primer/paint odors TJ Paint General Painting Discussion 37 08-30-2010 02:46 AM
Spraying Oil Based Paint for Nicotine stains michael sims General Painting Discussion 22 07-28-2009 03:22 PM
Interior acrylic primer that will kill stains? Last Craftsman Surface Preparation and Application 19 02-14-2009 05:16 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | ElectricianTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com