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Old 06-28-2020, 11:11 AM   #21
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Observation:

Your decision making proces is analogous to a guy needing a sufficient means of transportation to haul a tool box and ladder for general painting purposes. That 2005 Toyota Tacoma would suffice, but the potential to grow may require that 1999 Ford F-350 Duely for only a thousand more.

The question is:
1. What would fit your needs now?
2. What is more reliable?
3. What is more economically feasible?
4. What is your Strategic Plan to actually grow where a F-350 would be required?

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Old 06-28-2020, 11:36 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radius118 View Post
Ok, thanks for the advice.

I guess I will keep looking. Seems like any machine that appears to be decent is gone very quickly.

Check some of the pawn shops that are known to carry equipment, or ask your supplier if they know anyone looking to sell.
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Old 06-28-2020, 12:23 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CApainter View Post
Observation:

Your decision making proces is analogous to a guy needing a sufficient means of transportation to haul a tool box and ladder for general painting purposes. That 2005 Toyota Tacoma would suffice, but the potential to grow may require that 1999 Ford F-350 Duely for only a thousand more.

The question is:
1. What would fit your needs now?
2. What is more reliable?
3. What is more economically feasible?
4. What is your Strategic Plan to actually grow where a F-350 would be required?
A 350 dually for a painter? What are you hauling - a load of lead ladders?
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Old 06-28-2020, 02:39 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocomonkeynuts View Post
Check some of the pawn shops that are known to carry equipment, or ask your supplier if they know anyone looking to sell.
Or, complete four brush and roll jobs and invest in the company by purchasing a new Titan 445.
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Old 06-28-2020, 02:55 PM   #25
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A 350 dually for a painter? What are you hauling - a load of lead ladders?
I've seen it used in the industrial painting business. But even then, I prefer a 1 ton utility truck over a dually, which I drove for a number of years.

Here's another analogy:

It's like say I'm a guy that likes to shoot the occasional squirrl while sipping a bourbon on the porch of my log cabin. A .22 cal. Ruger six shooter would more than suffice. But in preparation for the rare event a Moose or Polar Bear strolls across my front yard, I instead choose a .30-06 Remington model 700. It makes a mess out of the squirrls, but I'm prepared to move up to bigger game just in case.

It just doesn't seem to be part of a good Strategic Plan.
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Old 06-28-2020, 06:43 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CApainter View Post
I've seen it used in the industrial painting business. But even then, I prefer a 1 ton utility truck over a dually, which I drove for a number of years.

Here's another analogy:

It's like say I'm a guy that likes to shoot the occasional squirrl while sipping a bourbon on the porch of my log cabin. A .22 cal. Ruger six shooter would more than suffice. But in preparation for the rare event a Moose or Polar Bear strolls across my front yard, I instead choose a .30-06 Remington model 700. It makes a mess out of the squirrls, but I'm prepared to move up to bigger game just in case.

It just doesn't seem to be part of a good Strategic Plan.

hydraulic pumps are more akin to hunting squirrels with a 50 caliber but yeah.
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Old 06-28-2020, 10:19 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CApainter View Post
Observation:

Your decision making proces is analogous to a guy needing a sufficient means of transportation to haul a tool box and ladder for general painting purposes. That 2005 Toyota Tacoma would suffice, but the potential to grow may require that 1999 Ford F-350 Duely for only a thousand more.

The question is:
1. What would fit your needs now?
2. What is more reliable?
3. What is more economically feasible?
4. What is your Strategic Plan to actually grow where a F-350 would be required?
Completely understand your analogy.

Yes, you are correct I really don't *need* the 3500. I have a waiting list of customers, some of which want me to do some bigger jobs - like a complete interior paint of a newly built 5000 sq ft shop.

If I have the 3500 it opens up the possibility of oing those jobs. I have a part time helper I am hoping to make full time with the additional work I can get with that machine.

One thing I have learned about buying used equipment. If you find a good deal, jump on it. You probably won't get the opportunity again. And if it really is a good deal, it can be sold at a later date if it doesn't earn it's keep. Usually at a profit.

That being said I am probably going to buy the 3500. But I am also going to keep my eyes peeled for a 440+ or 395+ machine. That will give me the best of both worlds.
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Old 06-28-2020, 10:33 PM   #28
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Next question.

Is a Graco Ultra 500 a decent machine? One of these popped up. Price seems a little high but maybe they are negotiable.

Also just found an Ultra Max II 490 PC that apparently has a leak by the pump. Packings? Probably worth a risk at $125!

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Old 06-29-2020, 12:26 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radius118 View Post
Next question.

Is a Graco Ultra 500 a decent machine? One of these popped up. Price seems a little high but maybe they are negotiable.

Also just found an Ultra Max II 490 PC that apparently has a leak by the pump. Packings? Probably worth a risk at $125!
Graco 500 are good pumps, but older not modern design. In particular the sleeves wear out on them leading to poor seal against the packings.


a 490 for less than $500 is a great deal. Even if you just have to swap an entire new pump section only ~$300
https://www.portlandcompressor.com/s...it-for-390-595


Leaks out the top of the pump usually just means the upper packings need service, or the piston rod is hosed. Likely it just needs a good cleaning and a new packing kit. ~$80. I usually charge $50 to put in new packings, depends on how much dried paint I need to remove first.
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Old 06-29-2020, 02:57 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocomonkeynuts View Post
Graco 500 are good pumps, but older not modern design. In particular the sleeves wear out on them leading to poor seal against the packings.
Pics of my $80 treasure!

Unfortunately it turns out the machine was not a 490 but an older Ultra 500. But for $80 of course I picked it up.

It came with a hose but that's going in the garbage. The thing pumped water but leaked all over the place. There is a pic with a red rectangle in it. That's where it leaks. Probably pretty obvious for you guys.

Looks like there is supposed to be a drain valve of some type on the bottom of the vertical filter that is missing. Is there anything else obviously wrong with this thing that I don't see?

So can I get away with a repack or do I have to replace the whole pump or sleeve or?

Also, what do you recommend for a decent but affordable gun for this machine?

So far it looks like my purchase list for this machine is:
Parts to repair leak
Hose
Gun
Intake screen
Filter?
Attached Thumbnails
1st Sprayer Advice & options-img_20200629_114800.jpg  

1st Sprayer Advice & options-img_20200629_114822.jpg  

1st Sprayer Advice & options-img_20200629_114809.jpg  

1st Sprayer Advice & options-img_20200629_114815.jpg  

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Old 06-29-2020, 05:47 PM   #31
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On the underside of the sprayer there is usually a model number and series number. Go to gracopartsbook.com and put in the model number and it will show you a detailed diagram for the pump section specific to that sprayer.


New filters and screen. Definitely needs a repack dried paint coming out the top packing isn't a good sign typically. Check connections, and threaded parts get sealed with PTFE tape. Eveything that moves should be clean, shiny and greased.



Other parts to check:
transducer
prime valve
piston rod
this pump doesn't have a separate cylinder but you need to check the walls for damage, pressure cuts, cupping of the steel etc.



$80 is a good buy but be prepared to put a lot of hours cleaning dried paint out of that pump. I would disassemble and soak everything in lacquer thinner.
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Old 06-29-2020, 08:37 PM   #32
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I think my Dad handed down one of those to me in 1996.. Sold it again 2005.
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Old 06-29-2020, 08:50 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocomonkeynuts View Post
On the underside of the sprayer there is usually a model number and series number. Go to gracopartsbook.com and put in the model number and it will show you a detailed diagram for the pump section specific to that sprayer.


New filters and screen. Definitely needs a repack dried paint coming out the top packing isn't a good sign typically. Check connections, and threaded parts get sealed with PTFE tape. Eveything that moves should be clean, shiny and greased.



Other parts to check:
transducer
prime valve
piston rod
this pump doesn't have a separate cylinder but you need to check the walls for damage, pressure cuts, cupping of the steel etc.



$80 is a good buy but be prepared to put a lot of hours cleaning dried paint out of that pump. I would disassemble and soak everything in lacquer thinner.
More very useful information, thank you.


I attached a picture of the plate I found. Is this the plate I am looking for? Can I go after this with some lacquer thinner without damaging it to get all the crusty paint off of it?

Also, how do you check the transducer? Someone needs to post a youtube video on how to overhaul these things.
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Old 06-29-2020, 08:59 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radius118 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocomonkeynuts View Post
On the underside of the sprayer there is usually a model number and series number. Go to gracopartsbook.com and put in the model number and it will show you a detailed diagram for the pump section specific to that sprayer.


New filters and screen. Definitely needs a repack dried paint coming out the top packing isn't a good sign typically. Check connections, and threaded parts get sealed with PTFE tape. Eveything that moves should be clean, shiny and greased.



Other parts to check:
transducer
prime valve
piston rod
this pump doesn't have a separate cylinder but you need to check the walls for damage, pressure cuts, cupping of the steel etc.



$80 is a good buy but be prepared to put a lot of hours cleaning dried paint out of that pump. I would disassemble and soak everything in lacquer thinner.
More very useful information, thank you.


I attached a picture of the plate I found. Is this the plate I am looking for? Can I go after this with some lacquer thinner without damaging it to get all the crusty paint off of it?

Also, how do you check the transducer? Someone needs to post a youtube video on how to overhaul these things. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.painttalk.com/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Scrub with blue sponge and hot soapy water. Transducer and prime valve you can't check until the pump is rebuilt and you test for pressure. Prime valve either works or it will leak when pressure is applied. Transducer controls pressure, suggest you attach a fluid pressure gauge suitable for 0-5000psi. This will also show you visually of there are leaks in the system

Attach the gauge as seen in this photo of a 1095 I rebuilt
Attached Thumbnails
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Old 06-29-2020, 09:35 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocomonkeynuts View Post
Scrub with blue sponge and hot soapy water. Transducer and prime valve you can't check until the pump is rebuilt and you test for pressure. Prime valve either works or it will leak when pressure is applied. Transducer controls pressure, suggest you attach a fluid pressure gauge suitable for 0-5000psi. This will also show you visually of there are leaks in the system

Attach the gauge as seen in this photo of a 1095 I rebuilt
I was thinking about installing a pressure gauge. Thank you for that.

Blue sponge? As in a blue scotch-brite sponge?
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Old 06-30-2020, 10:08 AM   #36
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Quote:
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I was thinking about installing a pressure gauge. Thank you for that.

Blue sponge? As in a blue scotch-brite sponge?

correct. The gauge will also show you if the system is approaching too high of pressure...
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Old 06-30-2020, 07:22 PM   #37
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First off, the Graco Pro210ES is not a contractor grade paint sprayer, more like a DIY level. The entry level contractor grade Graco is the 390. I was a Graco fan and bled Blue for years. My first Graco 390 lasted me 16 years, incredible. When my sprayer finally stopped working I immediately bought another Graco 390 and I have had nothing but problems due to all the components now cheap Chinese parts.

In conclusion, if you want to stay right around $1k for a good paint sprayer, purchase the Titan 440. The unit is small and you do not need a cart which is more expensive, a stand is less expensive and is the same exact unit.
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Old 06-30-2020, 09:30 PM   #38
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The Pro 210ES is the same as the 390 with the exception of motor lifetime warranty. I did a parts check and motor is the same, all parts except front housing and pump which I am sure could be interchanged. Pump repair manual for both is same. Also a cheaper gun comes with the Pro 210ES. I agree a 395 and up is a better long term investment. I spray exterior and DryLok with my PRO 210ES which has yet to fail. The PRO 210ES is around $850.

Last edited by maxtn; 06-30-2020 at 10:17 PM..
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Old 06-30-2020, 09:42 PM   #39
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First off, the Graco Pro210ES is not a contractor grade paint sprayer, more like a DIY level. The entry level contractor grade Graco is the 390. I was a Graco fan and bled Blue for years. My first Graco 390 lasted me 16 years, incredible. When my sprayer finally stopped working I immediately bought another Graco 390 and I have had nothing but problems due to all the components now cheap Chinese parts.

In conclusion, if you want to stay right around $1k for a good paint sprayer, purchase the Titan 440. The unit is small and you do not need a cart which is more expensive, a stand is less expensive and is the same exact unit.
Titans suck, cheap plastic made in china crap. don't like spraying with them and don't like working on them. If you want a good made in USA pump then TriTech is hands down the only option. Best pump you will ever own.
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Old 07-02-2020, 12:28 PM   #40
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Find out who your local sprayer rep is. They may have a demo or reconditioned machine available. I bought a Speedflo 4500 that the rep had as a demo that never even had a gallon of paint run through it that he sold to me with $1000 off the top because it was a demo. That thing was a tank. I agree with some of the other comments in that it is quite large and not easily portable. We did a lot of new construction at the time. We would have miles of walls and ceilings to spray. With 2 guns running, I would basically have to pay someone to sit there and keep the five full because it would rip through product so fast. I don't do much of that anymore so I sold it. Another time I bought a Titan 640 that someone had bought and returned because it had something wrong with the computer. They swapped out the electronics and sold it to me half price. It had one day of use on it. I bought that 15-20 years ago and it is still used on a regular basis and I have never had any issues with it.
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