Earth Will Survive. We May Not. - Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum > Paint Talk Community > Off Topic (Non Trade)

Like Tree22Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-16-2018, 09:40 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
jennifertemple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,483
Rewards Points: 2,915
Thanks: 418
Thanked 352 Times in 231 Posts
View jennifertemple's Photo Album My Photos
Default Earth Will Survive. We May Not.

I thought this was well said:

"Our planet does not need our saving. The biosphere has endured cataclysms far worse than us — and after millions of years thrived again. Even the Earth’s five fearsome mass extinctions became opportunities for the biosphere’s creativity, driving new rounds of evolutionary experiments. That, after all, is how we big-brained mammals ended up dominating the Earth rather than our dinosaur predecessors. As the great biologist Lynn Margulis once put it, "Gaia is a tough bitch." In the long term, the biosphere will handle pretty much anything we throw at it, including climate change.


What Earth’s history does make clear, however, is that if we don’t take the right kind of action soon the biosphere will simply move on without us, creating new versions of itself in the changing climate we’re generating now. So we must be honest. The problem is not saving the Earth or life writ large, but saving our cherished civilization. From that perspective the nature of our choices changes significantly."


(From an Article in the New York Times)
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/12/o...e-may-not.html
Fman, ridesarize and lilpaintchic like this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
In Time: "You learn that you really can endure...That you really are strong, And you really do have worth, And you learn and learn and learn..."

Last edited by jennifertemple; 06-16-2018 at 09:41 PM.. Reason: spacing
jennifertemple is offline   Reply With Quote

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. PaintTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-16-2018, 11:28 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Tprice2193's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 347
Thanks: 0
Thanked 85 Times in 76 Posts
View Tprice2193's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Thanks for posting the link for the entire article which I read and was not particularly impressed. Seemed to me to be a weak attempt to reframe the climate change debate. I think his point is that Earth has survived and will continue to survive regardless of what humankind throws at it. He further suggests that if we don't get off our asses and do something about this climate change us humans are causing then humankind may not be part of Earth's future. We have to make the right decisions now! Polar Bears be damned it is the phytoplankton thats going to get us. He claims the Earth don't need saved but if we expect to be around we better do something about man-made climate change. Seems pretty silly to me that if humankind is impacting the biosphere that this impact would be limited to climate change....seems incredibly arrogant to think that humankind can influence it. The demagogues are trying to find new ways to scare us so they can tell us the right way to fix it. Carbon credits anyone?
Tprice2193 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Tprice2193 For This Useful Post:
chrisn (06-18-2018), Delta Painting (06-17-2018), Rbriggs82 (06-17-2018)
Old 06-16-2018, 11:45 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
jennifertemple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,483
Rewards Points: 2,915
Thanks: 418
Thanked 352 Times in 231 Posts
View jennifertemple's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tprice2193 View Post
Thanks for posting the link for the entire article which I read and was not particularly impressed. Seemed to me to be a weak attempt to reframe the climate change debate. I think his point is that Earth has survived and will continue to survive regardless of what humankind throws at it. He further suggests that if we don't get off our asses and do something about this climate change us humans are causing then humankind may not be part of Earth's future. We have to make the right decisions now! Polar Bears be damned it is the phytoplankton thats going to get us. He claims the Earth don't need saved but if we expect to be around we better do something about man-made climate change. Seems pretty silly to me that if humankind is impacting the biosphere that this impact would be limited to climate change....seems incredibly arrogant to think that humankind can influence it. The demagogues are trying to find new ways to scare us so they can tell us the right way to fix it. Carbon credits anyone?

Well, it does not seem right to me to quote an article without providing access to the source; that might make it very misleading. Truth to tell, what ever the climate is doing, we are not likely to do anything that would stop it. It is, clearly, melting the poles and permafrost but a carbon tax will not make it any colder! What really needs to happen is to think about how we can live with the changes. None of the political types are working on that! Just keep asking us to pay to have emitters emit less, RIGHT! I believe that will work, don't you?
I've always said the planet does not need us to save it, it will be just fine, no matter what we do. We were never going to be here for ever but if we built up ways to get along on a warmer planet, we might be here a little longer. All we can do is postpone our exit, maybe.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
In Time: "You learn that you really can endure...That you really are strong, And you really do have worth, And you learn and learn and learn..."

Last edited by jennifertemple; 06-16-2018 at 11:51 PM..
jennifertemple is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-17-2018, 07:48 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Delta Painting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,477
Rewards Points: 82
Thanks: 4,373
Thanked 727 Times in 513 Posts
View Delta Painting's Photo Album My Photos
Default

The Earths climate has been changing since the inception of the planet. It's pretty arrogant to think we know how the climate is changing when we have only been keeping track for a few hundred years of a planet that's millions of years old...
Rbriggs82 and slinger58 like this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Delta Painting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 08:39 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
PACman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: North central Ohio
Posts: 10,767
Rewards Points: 1,124
Thanks: 2,999
Thanked 4,677 Times in 3,146 Posts
View PACman's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I'm pretty sure that humanity will not survive. It's actually a forgone conclusion. Anyone who thinks that we had a chance to survive as a species for a million years on the planet is dead wrong. What we DO have is the ability to develop ways to leave the planet, and in reality that is the only way our species will survive.
jennifertemple likes this.
__________________
"One who dares not offend cannot be honest." Thomas Paine-patriot

"Screw you guys! I'm going home!" Cartmann
PACman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 08:49 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
PACman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: North central Ohio
Posts: 10,767
Rewards Points: 1,124
Thanks: 2,999
Thanked 4,677 Times in 3,146 Posts
View PACman's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta Painting View Post
The Earths climate has been changing since the inception of the planet. It's pretty arrogant to think we know how the climate is changing when we have only been keeping track for a few hundred years of a planet that's millions of years old...
Not to mention the fact that all the climate "data" that is being thrown about has been proven by "real" scientists to be biased and extremely flawed. All this data was gathered by people who's goal was to prove man made climate change was real, and not scientists who used proven scientific methods and peer review to find out the actual scientific facts. This my friends is 100% irrefutable.

for example, and this is a great way to get peoples panties in a bind, the volcano erupting in Hawaii has emitted as much CO2 as 10,000,000 automobiles would emit in a year. And there are actually several hundred volcanic events worldwide every years. Yet the man made climate change people will scream and deny, deny, deny when you mention this massive C02 discharge has a much larger impact on our climate. Watch what happens in response to this comment an you'll see what i mean. It's actually happened on PT in that past when i brought up this very thing! BUT, you can't SEE the Co2, so they will deny it's happening just so ignorant people will buy in to the agenda.
__________________
"One who dares not offend cannot be honest." Thomas Paine-patriot

"Screw you guys! I'm going home!" Cartmann
PACman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 09:53 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 337
Rewards Points: 682
Thanks: 7
Thanked 36 Times in 33 Posts
View Fman's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PACman View Post
Not to mention the fact that all the climate "data" that is being thrown about has been proven by "real" scientists to be biased and extremely flawed. All this data was gathered by people who's goal was to prove man made climate change was real, and not scientists who used proven scientific methods and peer review to find out the actual scientific facts. This my friends is 100% irrefutable.

for example, and this is a great way to get peoples panties in a bind, the volcano erupting in Hawaii has emitted as much CO2 as 10,000,000 automobiles would emit in a year. And there are actually several hundred volcanic events worldwide every years. Yet the man made climate change people will scream and deny, deny, deny when you mention this massive C02 discharge has a much larger impact on our climate. Watch what happens in response to this comment an you'll see what i mean. It's actually happened on PT in that past when i brought up this very thing! BUT, you can't SEE the Co2, so they will deny it's happening just so ignorant people will buy in to the agenda.
So, 10 million automobiles wouldn't exacerbate that? Maybe just a smidgen?
jennifertemple and Brushman4 like this.
Fman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 10:03 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
PACman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: North central Ohio
Posts: 10,767
Rewards Points: 1,124
Thanks: 2,999
Thanked 4,677 Times in 3,146 Posts
View PACman's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fman View Post
So, 10 million automobiles wouldn't exacerbate that? Maybe just a smidgen?
yeah they do, but the Co2 emissions from volcanoes is many times greater then every car on earth in years when there is a huge eruption. So saying humans contribute the percentage of climate change that is currently trendy is a bold faced lie. And if is is, the only way to control that supposed climate change is to eliminate a hig percentage of humans? So who goes first?
__________________
"One who dares not offend cannot be honest." Thomas Paine-patriot

"Screw you guys! I'm going home!" Cartmann
PACman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 10:38 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
PACman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: North central Ohio
Posts: 10,767
Rewards Points: 1,124
Thanks: 2,999
Thanked 4,677 Times in 3,146 Posts
View PACman's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Ultra high definition electrical transmission. That's the ticket! It will buy us at least another 250,000 years! If our governments can get their 5hit together anyway. But the odds of that happening are pretty low, so i guess we're all just going to die off anyway.
jennifertemple likes this.
__________________
"One who dares not offend cannot be honest." Thomas Paine-patriot

"Screw you guys! I'm going home!" Cartmann
PACman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 10:40 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 337
Rewards Points: 682
Thanks: 7
Thanked 36 Times in 33 Posts
View Fman's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PACman View Post
yeah they do, but the Co2 emissions from volcanoes is many times greater then every car on earth in years when there is a huge eruption. So saying humans contribute the percentage of climate change that is currently trendy is a bold faced lie. And if is is, the only way to control that supposed climate change is to eliminate a hig percentage of humans? So who goes first?
We've got people working on eliminating people, even as we speak. That has always been the way of the world too. Is it a lie that since the beginning of the industrial age the earth- which had always experienced change- had never before experienced such widespread burning of fossil fuels via factories, automobiles and the various and sundry activities of an ever growing population?
Brushman4 likes this.
Fman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 10:58 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
jennifertemple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,483
Rewards Points: 2,915
Thanks: 418
Thanked 352 Times in 231 Posts
View jennifertemple's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PACman View Post
I'm pretty sure that humanity will not survive. It's actually a forgone conclusion. Anyone who thinks that we had a chance to survive as a species for a million years on the planet is dead wrong. What we DO have is the ability to develop ways to leave the planet, and in reality that is the only way our species will survive.

Engineering a place for humanity away from our home planet would be virtually impossible, better to work on engineering this planet. In any event, an eternity of humanity was never on!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
In Time: "You learn that you really can endure...That you really are strong, And you really do have worth, And you learn and learn and learn..."
jennifertemple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 11:01 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
jennifertemple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,483
Rewards Points: 2,915
Thanks: 418
Thanked 352 Times in 231 Posts
View jennifertemple's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fman View Post
We've got people working on eliminating people, even as we speak. That has always been the way of the world too. Is it a lie that since the beginning of the industrial age the earth- which had always experienced change- had never before experienced such widespread burning of fossil fuels via factories, automobiles and the various and sundry activities of an ever growing population?

No it is not a lie. We add greatly to what the volcanoes do, so far, but given a big enough one, like, say, Yellowstone, that's the end for most life on the planet.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
In Time: "You learn that you really can endure...That you really are strong, And you really do have worth, And you learn and learn and learn..."
jennifertemple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 11:12 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
jennifertemple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,483
Rewards Points: 2,915
Thanks: 418
Thanked 352 Times in 231 Posts
View jennifertemple's Photo Album My Photos
Default

What ever the cause, THE PLANET IS WARMING, I do think we were big contributors. All of that is beside the point. We have passed most of the tipping points. It is beyond repair and cap&trade or carbon tax will not help. That just creates more games for the stock markets to play. If we want to stay longer we need a serious reduction in the birth rate, we need to engineer systems to survive in a changed world BUT MOST OF ALL we need the public and political will to make some really hard and expensive choices. I am no optimistic. So, we have received the eviction notice, it's just a matter limited time now. DANG! I am really glad I'm old!!!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
In Time: "You learn that you really can endure...That you really are strong, And you really do have worth, And you learn and learn and learn..."
jennifertemple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 12:23 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
PACman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: North central Ohio
Posts: 10,767
Rewards Points: 1,124
Thanks: 2,999
Thanked 4,677 Times in 3,146 Posts
View PACman's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fman View Post
We've got people working on eliminating people, even as we speak. That has always been the way of the world too. Is it a lie that since the beginning of the industrial age the earth- which had always experienced change- had never before experienced such widespread burning of fossil fuels via factories, automobiles and the various and sundry activities of an ever growing population?
yes. In fact the first mass extinction was caused by excessive Co2 in the atmosphere. The geological record proves this. What caused it was a large uptick in volcano eruptions.
__________________
"One who dares not offend cannot be honest." Thomas Paine-patriot

"Screw you guys! I'm going home!" Cartmann
PACman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 12:31 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
PACman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: North central Ohio
Posts: 10,767
Rewards Points: 1,124
Thanks: 2,999
Thanked 4,677 Times in 3,146 Posts
View PACman's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jennifertemple View Post
No it is not a lie. We add greatly to what the volcanoes do, so far, but given a big enough one, like, say, Yellowstone, that's the end for most life on the planet.
BUT the ONLY way we can reverse any effect human kind has had is to GREATLY reduce the population. We passed the human population level that the earth could indefinitely sustain over 100 years ago. And no, there is not one shred of evidence presented by a proper scientific study, that has held up to proper peer review that supports the "concept" that human activity has greatly effected our global environment. ONLY data presented by pseudo-scientists that were looking for a way to prove their desired outcome since the late 60's. Read a REAL science book, and not a textbook (which are subject to the same manipulations our mass media is) and with a little research you can easily find out that i am correct.

There is and has been a global agenda on this for over 50 years. There is a lot of people that stand to maintain a lot of control and money by getting the developed countries (especially the US) to buy in to said agenda.
__________________
"One who dares not offend cannot be honest." Thomas Paine-patriot

"Screw you guys! I'm going home!" Cartmann
PACman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 12:35 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
PACman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: North central Ohio
Posts: 10,767
Rewards Points: 1,124
Thanks: 2,999
Thanked 4,677 Times in 3,146 Posts
View PACman's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jennifertemple View Post
Engineering a place for humanity away from our home planet would be virtually impossible, better to work on engineering this planet. In any event, an eternity of humanity was never on!
There is not enough stored kinetic energy to sustain human life on Earth much longer, regardless of what we do. We are part of a closed energy system that is in a constant state of decay. We are accelerating that decay, and there is nothing we can do about it as long as there is a quickly increasing rise in population. 2500 years tops from what i've read. It is a waste of time and energy to try to correct this by any other means than population reduction. And the powers that be, i'e, the extremely wealthy and powerful, know this and are actively engaging in efforts to do it.
__________________
"One who dares not offend cannot be honest." Thomas Paine-patriot

"Screw you guys! I'm going home!" Cartmann
PACman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 01:16 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
jennifertemple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,483
Rewards Points: 2,915
Thanks: 418
Thanked 352 Times in 231 Posts
View jennifertemple's Photo Album My Photos
Default

@PACman Even as we all know there are far to many of us on the planet, every time a birth rate drops, anywhere in the industrialized countries, politicians panic. They worry about the tax base and a lot of other effects from a greatly reduced population. Then they try to import enough people to uphold the status quo. All over the world, the uneducated, have as many kids as they can in the hope that one or two will survive into adulthood and take care of them as the age. All the corporations depend on large populations to give them money and power. Like all animals, we tend to wear out the carrying capacity of our territory and historically we would move on and the environment would recover over time. Now we have reached the limits of the carrying capacity of the whole planet and there is no place to move on to. With all of the complications and politics involved. I do not see us surviving as a species unless a huge plaque comes along and wipes out 2/3s of the earths population. (Something a kin to what the black death did in centuries past). We have people surviving better and longer at both ends. Babies that would have died a century ago are given medical aid that takes them into old age. Old age keeps getting extended. We have gone from average life spans of 45 years to an average of 80. As I see it, as a species, we are pretty much, Phucked!
I am inclined to think of the words of Edna St. Vincent Millay:


My candle burns at both ends
It will not last the night;
But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends -
It gives a lovely light.


Humanity has been an amazing flash on the earth but we will burn out more quickly too.
Brushman4 and PACman like this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
In Time: "You learn that you really can endure...That you really are strong, And you really do have worth, And you learn and learn and learn..."
jennifertemple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 01:23 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
PACman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: North central Ohio
Posts: 10,767
Rewards Points: 1,124
Thanks: 2,999
Thanked 4,677 Times in 3,146 Posts
View PACman's Photo Album My Photos
Default

In reality any conversation about human extinction that doesn't start with the words "coronal mass ejection" is a waste of time. We are hundreds of times more likely to be extinguished by a coronal mass ejection then any thing else. Why do we almost never hear of coronal mass ejection? Because no one can make money off of it.
__________________
"One who dares not offend cannot be honest." Thomas Paine-patriot

"Screw you guys! I'm going home!" Cartmann
PACman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 01:30 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 337
Rewards Points: 682
Thanks: 7
Thanked 36 Times in 33 Posts
View Fman's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PACman View Post
BUT the ONLY way we can reverse any effect human kind has had is to GREATLY reduce the population. We passed the human population level that the earth could indefinitely sustain over 100 years ago. And no, there is not one shred of evidence presented by a proper scientific study, that has held up to proper peer review that supports the "concept" that human activity has greatly effected our global environment. ONLY data presented by pseudo-scientists that were looking for a way to prove their desired outcome since the late 60's. Read a REAL science book, and not a textbook (which are subject to the same manipulations our mass media is) and with a little research you can easily find out that i am correct.

There is and has been a global agenda on this for over 50 years. There is a lot of people that stand to maintain a lot of control and money by getting the developed countries (especially the US) to buy in to said agenda.
What if 97% of the world's paint store proprietors backed the use of lead-based paint because lead is a naturally occurring element on the earth? I guess I'd be a little suspect of that myself.
Fman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 01:45 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
jennifertemple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,483
Rewards Points: 2,915
Thanks: 418
Thanked 352 Times in 231 Posts
View jennifertemple's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PACman View Post
In reality any conversation about human extinction that doesn't start with the words "coronal mass ejection" is a waste of time. We are hundreds of times more likely to be extinguished by a coronal mass ejection then any thing else. Why do we almost never hear of coronal mass ejection? Because no one can make money off of it.

Well, there are also asteroids, a major solar storm, super tsunamis, a super nova few million light years away, volcanoes, ozone depletion. What can anyone say, we live on the knife edge. The ways we can be removed far out number the ways we might stay. Best to be in denial about all the things we have not a snowball's chance in he!! of surviving or mitigating.
Brushman4 likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
In Time: "You learn that you really can endure...That you really are strong, And you really do have worth, And you learn and learn and learn..."
jennifertemple is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
None

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
how fast are you? johnthepainter General Painting Discussion 129 04-01-2017 01:29 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | ElectricianTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com