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Old 07-11-2009, 01:55 PM   #121
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Question: Would this Star Chamber of the painting world, be inclusive to non-contractors like myself, and Last Craftsman, given we're just Journeyman painters?
CA

If pt had more contributors like you and LC it would be a much better place. You guys arent "just" journeymen or just anything. You are exemplary of professional painters.



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Old 07-11-2009, 01:58 PM   #122
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Thank you V. I value your opinions.
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:01 PM   #123
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And yet somehow we expect that homeowners should be able to discern that when choosing a contractor.

I attend another forum where members are required to post a signature in which they have their name, business name, location and website if applicable. This eliminates the anonymous hack or diy-er right out of the gate. From there, if they are a fraud it is pretty quickly apparent.
I would assume some guys would just create a name and location in a sig line...
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:04 PM   #124
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I would assume some guys would just create a name and location in a sig line...
At least it would be something...If I put up a signature line that said "Scott's Downhome Painting" in Scranton CT, it could be googled and if nothing at all came up, it should raise a red flag. But you are right, there would still be those who would figure out how to get around it. And I dont think Nathan is going to put much time into policing the legitimacy of the membership.



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Old 07-11-2009, 02:05 PM   #125
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And I dont think Nathan is going to put much time into policing the legitimacy of the membership.
nope he is not...
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:32 PM   #126
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There will always be differing skill levels with any trade. That doesn't take away the fact that the chancers/wannabe's/hacks are taking away work from genuine tradesmen. I get a fair price for my work. The H/O who paid the hack half of what I would charge would have to pay full whack if mr hack wasn't here. They would also get the job done properly. The guys who are struggling through these bad times would have a lot more work on their books and be able to take on some apprentices. Those apprentices would go on to be properly trained painters.

Why do I get the impression that you're defending the unskilled painters who are lowering the standards of the trade..?
Rah! Rah!
Well said that man.

PaintTalks posters came over the hill,
Just like Bengal Lancers


Ten of them were Specialists,
The rest were Fncking Chancers.
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:48 PM   #127
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In some of the poker games we played in college, a guy would complain about the game the dealer chose, the usual response was, "well then give up your chair to the others waiting to come in"


To be blunt, I really doubt there will be any action taken to validate members, or open a new forum......unless someone here decides to pay the money for vBulletin and server space and start up a new forum with the rules discussed here.

So the next option is to pick and choose to whom you respond. Sure there will always be someone who will respond, like to the trolls. But, that's the freedom afforded in this country. If the general consensus is that the person is a hacking lowballer and unworthy of our knowledge, then no one will answer and the HL will wither away.

I think this is called self-policing.

Now, one way to self-police is ask the suspected HL if he belongs to a trade organization (NGPP, PDCA, ASID, etc), if his state requires licencing and if so, what is his number, if he is incorporated and what is the corporate name and state (this is easily verified on line through may States' Attorneys General websites). Once it is established at what level the person is, you can make a personal choice to help or not.

There is much talk in this country about personal responsibility and personal choice. Let's play that game here.

And to take it a step further, there is on your User Control Panel, in the Options category, a tool to "ignore" any user(s) you choose.

To me, making a personal choice about whom you post to is perhaps the most professional way to approach this.

You see, I know there are people who not agree with the ideas presented here and that they are a tad intimidated to raise objections to those ideas for an exclusionary section of this Bulletin Board.



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Old 07-11-2009, 04:17 PM   #128
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Bill

I have been in the painting trade for a very very long time. I have never personally seen an easily intimidated (read: timid) painter. They must all be here and not out in the field.



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Old 07-11-2009, 04:26 PM   #129
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The 'new forum' was just me being sarcastic. I don't see any harm in a senior members area. The NGPP has one for subscribed members but I don't see anyone that doesn't have access to it stating any concerns. I dunno, maybe you've had some pm's. You will never please all of the people all of the time. Personally, I think it isn't too bad an idea. After all,, the mods have got an area of their own (that's concerning lol).
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Old 07-11-2009, 04:55 PM   #130
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Pete,

The Members Only section of the NGPP is so that we can discuss Guild matters, post Chapter meetings, make available Chapter Newsletters, carry on BOD and Committee business, clarify NGPP policy, and be less polite to each other than we need be on the public forum.

I do not see an apples to apples comparison between a NGPP Member only section on the NGPP BB and a section for senior contributors here.


And the mods' section here likewise is used for topics needed to be discussed about this forum - like how to deal with the spam. I hope we finally came up with a solution, it's been pretty good the last few weeks.



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Old 07-11-2009, 04:57 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by vermontpainter View Post
Bill

I have been in the painting trade for a very very long time. I have never personally seen an easily intimidated (read: timid) painter. They must all be here and not out in the field.
Believe me, not all thoughts are posted in public. As you know, the PM feature is quite well used.



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Old 07-11-2009, 05:00 PM   #132
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Bill - O/T and on the subject of spam. I'll send you a PM that I'm sure you (and Nathan, the rest of the mods etc) will find enlightening on how the main spambot works.
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:17 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by CApainter View Post
Can you imagine NEPs always in agreement with fellow contractors. Trapped within some stuffy, private forum, not having the freedom to expose the frauds that defile our silicone sanctum. Deprived of his spot on insights and Katana edged wit? It's like seeing Jack after the lobotomy in "One flew Over the Cookoo's Nest"!
Thanks ........i think............................................. .
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:21 PM   #134
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PaintTalks posters came over the hill,
Just like Bengal Lancers

Ten of them were Specialists,
The rest were Fncking Chancers.
We have a new Anthem
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:28 PM   #135
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Just for the record I was only talking about one additional section ....not the entire site. I am still not sure what the big deal is to have a section for senior members to exchange ideas. It has nothing to do with how professional you are or how much you know in any specific area of the painting business. It is only meant to be blocked for non members and the few that cruise through here looking for the silver bullet. Make it 500 posts ....or 250. Just enough to keep the fly by nighter out. Another forum I am a member in (the same one VP mentioned) along with the company info in the signature line you also have to be logged in to see any of the business and marketing threads. They are not open to the public. Sure a hack could still get a membership and see the info but it is just one more filter to deter a fly by nighter.

I also think that some of the arguments and banter over certain threads help in the end as well. If they were made private from the general public I think we could have a little more brainstorming and more would participate with out the worry of a public image to be tarnished. It usually takes many stupid ideas and alot of debate to come up with one good solid idea or theory.

Last edited by NEPS.US; 07-11-2009 at 08:04 PM..
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:32 PM   #136
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I like the people on here. I enjoy a spirted debate as much (probably more) as some. But let me get this straight.
  1. Some of you are tired of the same old same old. You want to put an end to the sharing of information.
  2. You only want to share that info with some that you deem "worthy".
  3. You will use some emotional subjectivity that cannot be quantified or measured other than when you experiance a little indigestion. Or your hemmoroids act up.
  4. You will form your own "super special secret clique within a clique" probably with a special (and secret) password, a super special handshake and your own tree house.
Grow up and grow some. If your cooter itches I'll send you some vagasil.

You sound like a bunch of whinning, infantile, self righteous, indignant, egotistical jerks.

(I don't like this game...so I'm taking my ball and going home! Whhhaaaa! I am going to tell my mommy)

If you don't like a post don't read it. If you don't want to share info don't.

And if you are tired of this board, quit your whinning and go elsewhere.

(and yes...I still love you guys...but my God...you need a slap!)
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Old 07-11-2009, 06:03 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by bikerboy View Post
I like the people on here. I enjoy a spirted debate as much (probably more) as some. But let me get this straight.
  1. Some of you are tired of the same old same old. You want to put an end to the sharing of information.
  2. You only want to share that info with some that you deem "worthy".
  3. You will use some emotional subjectivity that cannot be quantified or measured other than when you experiance a little indigestion. Or your hemmoroids act up.
  4. You will form your own "super special secret clique within a clique" probably with a special (and secret) password, a super special handshake and your own tree house.
Grow up and grow some. If your cooter itches I'll send you some vagasil.

You sound like a bunch of whinning, infantile, self righteous, indignant, egotistical jerks.

(I don't like this game...so I'm taking my ball and going home! Whhhaaaa! I am going to tell my mommy)

If you don't like a post don't read it. If you don't want to share info don't.

And if you are tired of this board, quit your whinning and go elsewhere.

(and yes...I still love you guys...but my God...you need a slap!)

Amen. I was going to quit posting to this thread but with the latest from BB and DaArch, I can't help myself. Sorry if I am getting BB and DaArch in "trouble" with the gang. Just because I don't agree with some of the things folks say and try to defend my position doesn't mean I am not listening. I really like this forum and the way it operates. But what really tweaks me is censorship and some of the posts here sound like that is the direction they would like this forum to take.

I don't care if someone is not a professional painter, bonded, insured, or whatever. We are talking about a platform to freely exchange ideas. Let's keep it that way. If you don't like it, state your opinion or ignore it. I don't think the comments / advice made on this forum are truly going to affect the overall state of painting industry.

If you only want to share with your own group, try email.
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Old 07-11-2009, 06:18 PM   #138
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Amen. I was going to quit posting to this thread but with the latest from BB and DaArch, I can't help myself. Sorry if I am getting BB and DaArch in "trouble" with the gang.
.
Speaking for myself...I have NO problem getting into trouble!
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Old 07-11-2009, 06:24 PM   #139
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LOL!!!

With the way some of you act around here constantly insulting and badgering others, I personally will never post my business information just for some of you to snoop about in my IRL business.

Sorry NEPSilliatory, some things are gonna have to remain private.

I see FC truly understands the internet, while the rest of you are eager to change PT into more of an elitist style forum.
Here is a helpful hint for those who constantly wish to purge their internet of nuisances:
You can create a free website of your own and hand pick who becomes members according to your own personal rules!

It's called a "spin off site" and it's typically created by a small number of disgruntled members who are tired of the way Moderators run a forum they are currently a part of.
Nothing new really, happens every day at millions of forums.

I prefer to ignore the newbs because I am fully aware that summer brings the DIY'ers to the playground where they will do what they do best: make blatant DIY threads that I can easily overlook.
Must be the Pro in me?

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Old 07-11-2009, 06:27 PM   #140
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Amen. I was going to quit posting to this thread but with the latest from BB and DaArch, I can't help myself. Sorry if I am getting BB and DaArch in "trouble" with the gang. Just because I don't agree with some of the things folks say and try to defend my position doesn't mean I am not listening. I really like this forum and the way it operates. But what really tweaks me is censorship and some of the posts here sound like that is the direction they would like this forum to take.

I don't care if someone is not a professional painter, bonded, insured, or whatever. We are talking about a platform to freely exchange ideas. Let's keep it that way. If you don't like it, state your opinion or ignore it. I don't think the comments / advice made on this forum are truly going to affect the overall state of painting industry.

If you only want to share with your own group, try email.


Of course you feel this way. You have the most to gain with nothing relevant to offer because you are new to the trade. I am sure in time you will.

I would rather spend the time to educate someone like yourself that has made a financial commitment to help the trade overall. I do believe that by not helping new companies learn that we are hurting our own trade. The more professional companies we have, charging correctly and perfoming paint jobs correctly, the better off we all are as a industry.

That being said look at my post from 5:28 today ....It has nothing to do with being an elitist, it would just be nice to know who your audience is that we are sharing with.
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