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Old 09-06-2010, 10:14 PM   #1
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The Thunderdome.

I have been thinking about a strategy for dealing with conflicts between members.

It seems that often when a thread is deleted, one or more parties feel they never got a chance to say things they wanted to say.

The bad blood seems to remain and to crop up later in various forms in different threads, and in many cases the eliminating of a thread does not seem to dissolve the conflict at it's source, it just goes underground and pops up later, with the same bad blood resurfacing and forming around a different topic.

Often this can go on for months, and there seems to be an underlying proclivity by individuals to get into conflict with the same persons under different auspices.

I am not certain, but sometimes I wonder if this is because the exchange was cut short in a way that prevented the ultimate resolution from occurring.

Kind of like when two guys keep having beef then you let them fight it out, and after that the conflict is over.

--------------

Now, I don't have a problem with eliminating/locking threads. I understand completely the objective behind that action, and it certainly seems to keep the peace much better than doing nothing at all.

I just wonder to what degree unresolved emotions keep cropping up ad infinitum as a result of people feeling they didn't get a chance to say everything they felt was pertinent to their position prior to the thread being closed.

Especially if they feel a point was made by the opposition against their position which they did not get a chance to refute.

Once the thread is deleted/locked they understand the rule is that they can't talk about it any more, yet the bad blood remains.

Just as food for thought, what about the idea of banishing a contentious thread to a specific portion of a web forums, the thunderdome".

And the rule is that nothing pertaining to the conflict can exist outside "the thunderdome"

People who don't want to be bothered by the conflict in the normal portions of the forum would not have to go and witness the argument in "the thunderdome."

And if any of the involved parties in the thread mentioned the conflict in the normal parts of the forums, they would get banned for 1 day.

Then if they mentioned it again they would get banned for 2 days, etc.

Instead of following the rule to not discuss the conflict after the thread was deleted, like most people seem to do pretty well, they just would follow the rule of not discussing the conflict anywhere except in "the thunderdome"

Perhaps this could work in conflicts between two persons, where the two primary persons would be allowed to participate in hashing it out, but others who were not designated as part of the conflict could not say anything, only read.

And readers would also not be allowed in the normal areas of the forum to discuss the conflict under the same penalties as the participants.

---------

Who knows, it's just an idea I have thought about for a while.

I wonder if two people had beef if they would finally hash it out to a point that the conflict dissolved. Expecially at the point where they were just continuing to hurl stones at each other by themselves in the corner, there might be a sort of reduncy about it that would cause them both to abandon the conflict and not bring it up again, and the bad blood would have got a chance to work itself out.

But again, it's just an idea. I am not certain at all of it's outcome.

It's an interesting thought though.
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Old 09-06-2010, 10:20 PM   #2
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WHA?!?

trouble in camelot and wise was nowhere to be seen?!?

lol pt.

the answer is more mods with broader powers to subdue posting offenses!

then again, the thunderdome idea is rather tasty...
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Old 09-06-2010, 10:48 PM   #3
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I like the "thunderdome" idea, would let people hash out their BS, get the h-ll over it and move the farg on.
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Old 09-06-2010, 11:32 PM   #4
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I like the idea if nothing other than for its pure entertainment value as an armchair psychologist.
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Old 09-07-2010, 02:15 AM   #5
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Perhaps the consequence for discussing the conflict outside of the designated "thunderdome" should be more than 1 day of being banned.

Perhaps it should be 1 week for the 1st offense. And 2 weeks for the 2nd offense. etc. Or perhaps 3 days for 1st offense, and 6 days for 2nd. 1 day might not be enough motivation to prevent people from respecting the rule.

And I really think the concept would probably have the best effect only in those situations where the conflict is mostly boiling down to a conflict with two people.

If there were several people involved in the thread in the thunderdome, that would create too much of a percentage of the forum population in the "normal" section when participating outside the thunderdome , and I think it would undermine the effect of having the two conflict participants as the odd men out. ( or women )

Also to clarify the purpose of having the section available to be read by all members, as opposed to the two simply messaging each other is two fold.

One, when people are angry with each other, they usually don't feel like sending messages back and forth.

Two, if they felt slagged or jilted in a way that was witnessed by the forum as a community, they might be wanting to say their piece knowing that anyone in the forum that might have a misunderstanding of them, or their position, would have an option of reading what they had to say in defense/clarification of themselves/their position.

I think a lot of times what is frustrating for people when a thread is deleted is a certain kind of anxiety that doesn't happen anywhere else except internet forums, where they are not getting a chance to clear up any misunderstandings like they would be able to in real life, so it causes an anxiety that persists after the thread is closed.

I think for some people that anxiety causes them to engage in conflicts with their previous opponents even if the topic is unrelated to the original conflict.

-----------

Now having said all that. More thoughts on the potential downside of the idea are:

It's possible that such a system might make the conflict worse.

It is also possible that it would be a nightmare to moderate.

Because moderators would still have to be involved the dispute making sure people weren't swearing and or taking the conflict in some other direction which is completely unacceptable in any part of the forums.

And all of that moderating is something which is currently eliminated by deleting or locking the thread.

Also, there is the possibility that there is no perfect solution, and that the one that exists right now, is as good as it gets.

Kind of like the American justice system, for determining guilt in a trial. It has some flaws and is not perfect, but I have tried to imagine a better one, and I can't see a way that would work to eliminate the flaws. So, I think the American Justice system as far as trial procedure and determining guilt is not perfect, but pretty darn good, and possibly as good as it can be.

It's important in life sometimes to realize that 95% IS perfect, because the reality in some situations that it can't get any better than 95%.

Any way, just more food for thought.
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Old 09-07-2010, 02:44 AM   #6
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This Thunderdome... Is it seated and how much are the tickets? Put me down for the front row
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Old 09-07-2010, 02:55 AM   #7
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This Thunderdome... Is it seated and how much are the tickets? Put me down for the front row

Lol.

Not a good omen, that the practice might be a spectacle to some.

The purpose of the thunderdome is to let conflicts complete themselves and burn out.

I think a coliseum atmosphere might have the opposite influence/effect I was aiming for.

I suppose the name doesn't help, and could be named something else which would not give the impression that there would be fresh meat on the menu.

But it such a shame because the name has such a great ring to it for section in an internet forum!

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Old 09-07-2010, 06:42 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Craftsman View Post
Perhaps the consequence for discussing the conflict outside of the designated "thunderdome" should be more than 1 day of being banned.

Perhaps it should be 1 week for the 1st offense. And 2 weeks for the 2nd offense. etc. Or perhaps 3 days for 1st offense, and 6 days for 2nd. 1 day might not be enough motivation to prevent people from respecting the rule.

And I really think the concept would probably have the best effect only in those situations where the conflict is mostly boiling down to a conflict with two people.

If there were several people involved in the thread in the thunderdome, that would create too much of a percentage of the forum population in the "normal" section when participating outside the thunderdome , and I think it would undermine the effect of having the two conflict participants as the odd men out. ( or women )

Also to clarify the purpose of having the section available to be read by all members, as opposed to the two simply messaging each other is two fold.

One, when people are angry with each other, they usually don't feel like sending messages back and forth.

Two, if they felt slagged or jilted in a way that was witnessed by the forum as a community, they might be wanting to say their piece knowing that anyone in the forum that might have a misunderstanding of them, or their position, would have an option of reading what they had to say in defense/clarification of themselves/their position.

I think a lot of times what is frustrating for people when a thread is deleted is a certain kind of anxiety that doesn't happen anywhere else except internet forums, where they are not getting a chance to clear up any misunderstandings like they would be able to in real life, so it causes an anxiety that persists after the thread is closed.

I think for some people that anxiety causes them to engage in conflicts with their previous opponents even if the topic is unrelated to the original conflict.

-----------

Now having said all that. More thoughts on the potential downside of the idea are:

It's possible that such a system might make the conflict worse.

It is also possible that it would be a nightmare to moderate.

Because moderators would still have to be involved the dispute making sure people weren't swearing and or taking the conflict in some other direction which is completely unacceptable in any part of the forums.

And all of that moderating is something which is currently eliminated by deleting or locking the thread.

Also, there is the possibility that there is no perfect solution, and that the one that exists right now, is as good as it gets.

Kind of like the American justice system, for determining guilt in a trial. It has some flaws and is not perfect, but I have tried to imagine a better one, and I can't see a way that would work to eliminate the flaws. So, I think the American Justice system as far as trial procedure and determining guilt is not perfect, but pretty darn good, and possibly as good as it can be.

It's important in life sometimes to realize that 95% IS perfect, because the reality in some situations that it can't get any better than 95%.

Any way, just more food for thought.

How bout looser pays? Wouldn't that be a better legal system that would slow down frivolous law suits & ambulance chasers!
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Old 09-07-2010, 08:33 AM   #9
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Just make a "derailed" section. Once a thread starts going south, move it to the "derailed" section and let it keep going.
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Old 09-07-2010, 08:54 AM   #10
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As an example: On my deleted "observations" post, Chris did notify me that it was possible that it would be pulled depending on how it played out. Personally I didnt have a problem with it and related that to her. Absolutely no hard feelings about it....though it was interesting to see how it played out.

Obviously, my sense of humor didnt quite mesh with others. I thought by putting it in the Off Topic section, people would realize it was exactly that...Off Topic. True my sense of humor may run more to the Dennis Miller style, but that relates only to my sense of humor. Not me as a person. I did have another member send me a few PM's that made it sound like I was bigoted, narrow-minded, egotistical, and a few other things. But that was a PM, and in the frame of this forum it shall remain a PM subject. I think the members here who have read alot of my posts probably realize that I'm not any of the mentioned above. At least I dont consider myself to be.

Unfortunately, the member seems hell-bent on carrying this to the "apology" post. So be it. I have no intention of playing this game with them, so I tend to view it as they're engaging in a form of "mental masturbation", meaning trying to carry this on for their own pleasure or whatever. Like I said, find another thread, switch channels.

(BTW, I went to a family gathering yesterday and told my gay nephew about the designer observations and the thread. He laughed his butt off. Apparently he's more comfortable in his own skin than some of the members. I could care less what his sexual orientation is, he's family and I love him...and he know's my sense of humor, and the person that I really am.)

This forum is what it is. I've seen more inflammatory rhetoric in on-going "debates" on this forum than what was to be considered humor. Personally, I feel the Mods do a more than adequate job of handling this. So the Thunderdome, IMO, is best left off the table, and let it be handled in the PM's. People want to carry grudges - we have no control over that. That's an issue for them to have to deal with personally.
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Old 09-07-2010, 11:13 AM   #11
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Ok, who is in the closet? Thats what this is really about, right?
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Old 09-07-2010, 02:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
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As an example: On my deleted "observations" post, Chris did notify me that it was possible that it would be pulled depending on how it played out. Personally I didnt have a problem with it and related that to her. Absolutely no hard feelings about it....though it was interesting to see how it played out.

Wolfgang just so you know, your thread did stir up the idea again for me, but I have been thinking about this idea for quite some time.

Not even just in relation to PaintTalk, but in relation to an ideal conflict management system for ALL web forums.

For the record I have never known Wolfgang to be involved in ongoing debates such as my "bad blood" examples where the same bad blood keeps cropping up surrounding different and unrelated topics.

I was not referring to Wolfgang with this example, in fact I have witnessed this phenomenon before I ever joined PaintTalk. I have always batted around different ideas as to what the ideal way to administrate a we forum would be.

------------------

Like Wolfgang, I also had literally zero problem with the fact that the thread had been deleted by the moderators.

I didn't feel jilted or disrespected in any way by the decision, even though the content of my post was about not giving up my right to have an opinion.

I don't feel my right to have that opinion was taken from me, and I don't feel that I was forced to adopt someone else's opinion. I can assure everyone my opinion is still alive and well even after the deletion of my post!



I am a little disappointed I didn't get to see some of the dialogue that might have addressed the post I made, It was a doozy!



I was very interested to see what some of the responses would but unfortunately, I had to go to work on Sunday right after I made my post.

Oh well. Kids are starving and losing their lives in other countries right now at this very moment as we all comfortably sit around debate comparitavely meaningless issues such as whether you should spray the soffits first then paint the body, or whether one should paint the body, then paint the soffits.

5 gallon bucket? Or Pan?

Things could be a lot worse.

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Old 09-07-2010, 02:11 PM   #13
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Just make a "derailed" section. Once a thread starts going south, move it to the "derailed" section and let it keep going.
Yeah. That would be good.

I though of another name for the section which would be less contentious than the Thunderdome.

The section could be called:

"Quarantine"

It still has a catchy ring to it for an internet forum!

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Old 09-07-2010, 03:40 PM   #14
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I have a section like this on my gaming forum, except we call it "These threads make baby Jesus cry"

Usually, they do.

Only we lock them completely after a certain amount of time, but they are left viewable.
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:31 PM   #15
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How bout looser pays? Wouldn't that be a better legal system that would slow down frivolous law suits & ambulance chasers!

yeah, I agree.

I was only referring to trials for determining guilt or innocence, such as in a murder trial.

Lawsuits are a different beast.
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:36 PM   #16
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wtf? wolf made a thread tthat went south, and is now being targeted by another member for harrassing P.M.'s?!?
no more extended hiatus/vacay time for the ole' WISEnstein!!!

<------ me becaused I missed it...
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Old 09-07-2010, 08:30 PM   #17
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Kind of like the American justice system, for determining guilt in a trial. It has some flaws and is not perfect, but I have tried to imagine a better one, and I can't see a way that would work to eliminate the flaws. So, I think the American Justice system as far as trial procedure and determining guilt is not perfect, but pretty darn good, and possibly as good as it can be.

Any way, just more food for thought.
Our justice system sucks- plain and simple. Bottom line if you can afford the high powered attorney you've got an extreme advantage over an individual that can't afford it.

How in the fck is that justice? Sorry, to take this off topic but that really pisses me off. And no I have never been wronged by the justice system - only because I was afforded the luxury of a decent paid lawyer. Sill doesn't make it right - though. Ok - I'm done venting.

Back on topic - It could be worthwhile idea.
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:07 PM   #18
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wtf? wolf made a thread tthat went south, and is now being targeted by another member for harrassing P.M.'s?!?
no more extended hiatus/vacay time for the ole' WISEnstein!!!

<------ me becaused I missed it...
Wasn't quite as dramatic as that Wise. How's the family doing? Hope all is well with the youngest ones. (Catching up on any sleep?)
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:14 PM   #19
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wtf? wolf made a thread tthat went south, and is now being targeted by another member for harrassing P.M.'s?!?
no more extended hiatus/vacay time for the ole' WISEnstein!!!

<------ me becaused I missed it...
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