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Old 12-02-2011, 09:03 AM   #21
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I always befuddle the paint reps (well, at least sometimes) because I want all the information like NACE provides. I think they think I am a bit odd.
Oh so you're "that guy"
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:23 AM   #22
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Oh so you're "that guy"
Hey NC, can you tell my why BM Advance, being a alkyd resin, still tests with solvent as if it is a waterborne? Is the resin soluble in water because they add some polarized groups to the alkyd chain allowing for water solubility? Is it a basic pH or acidic pH?

Are the "full spectrum" paint colors really anything special or designer hogwash?

Why can't BM have all their major interior lines match the factory color chip when comparing all lines in the same color?

If lacquer thinner does not affect old oil paint on trim and dissolves acrylic paint, why can you spray lacquer over acrylic paint with no effects but oils may wrinkle?
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:05 AM   #23
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Are the "full spectrum" paint colors really anything special or designer hogwash?
I'll take the easy one...they are special in that they don't use any black in the formulas and currently are only formulated for Aura. To us paint store peeps, the formulas read like someone trying to learn how to match colors--more than 4 colorants with a gratuitous drop of at least 2 or more to make the formulas harder to match--or at least that is the theory.

As for designer hogwash, partially true especially when having to overcome metamerism all of these years and suddenly the fact that a client would want their colors to look different in every light source is a good thing...

The fan decks are cool though--actual Aura eggshell paint on the cards. Makes it easy for clients to see and feel the color.
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:36 AM   #24
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I tried to steal the only Color Story deck from a certain store. They only had one copy and they cost $30-40 so, no freebies either I guess.

I actually asked them that question concerning color as well (different effects in different lighting). I can only imagine how some customers are going to respond to the colors looking different in different lighting. Have to remember to caution them on that if I use that deck. Is it really a much more obvious effect than traditional colors? I mean after all we are only seeing the wavelengths of light that a surface reflects, how much does it matter if there are 3 tints including a little black vs. 5 tints or more and a little grey?

Isn't it C2 or Farrow and Ball that is all full spectum colors as well?
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Old 12-20-2011, 12:09 PM   #25
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Today is test day! Bath and Spa on walls and ceiling in a bath used by 6 kids! You can't get a better test than that! Walls cleaned and sanded and ready to see how this stuff looks in person!
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:57 AM   #26
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Hey NC, can you tell my why BM Advance, being a alkyd resin, still tests with solvent as if it is a waterborne? Is the resin soluble in water because they add some polarized groups to the alkyd chain allowing for water solubility? Is it a basic pH or acidic pH?

If I knew I wouldnt own a store, i'd be manufacturing my own paint products. Im a tint jockey not a chemist


Are the "full spectrum" paint colors really anything special or designer hogwash?

They're all made using 5-7 colorants each, not the traditional 3-4, and none of them use any black or gray colorant. Are they special? Dunno. Will they be extremely hard to duplicate....absolutely.

Why can't BM have all their major interior lines match the factory color chip when comparing all lines in the same color?

Id like to know why as well. Each product tints with a different formula, so Regal is different from Aura, Super Spec, Ben, etc etc. Every formula is different depending on the product line and even sheen. The only real answer I can give is that the color chips are not actual paint. None will match "exact", and tinted gallons of different products in the same color will vary slightly.


If lacquer thinner does not affect old oil paint on trim and dissolves acrylic paint, why can you spray lacquer over acrylic paint with no effects but oils may wrinkle?

Paint VooDoo..............LOL its probably one of those things that even if it were explained to me I still wouldnt get it. Sort of like the baking soda and vinegar volcano. It baffled me when I was 5 and still does to this day.

Dean, sorry for the delayed response. Somehow I missed this one. Was probably busy not taking 6 of your polls about the same thing
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Old 12-21-2011, 09:29 AM   #27
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I need a link to the Nace Hotline! You are truly one to follow! Thanks to everyone on the info!
Man I love this site!
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:50 AM   #28
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I agree its great having someone so knowledgeable here.
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Old 12-21-2011, 05:32 PM   #29
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Yesterday I got the chance to play with Bath and spa in 2 colors. Used a light off white for ceiling that was previously a little lighter shade of white! Smooth ceiling required 2 coats as this did not cover like its regular Aura brother! I am a little suspect based on the white over white coverage that this a product labeled Aura because of its relative quality of its end performance . It's wet and dry hide were not what I would have expected in a very light off white over white!

The walls were done in a lime / sage green color that perhaps because of its color load had far better hide! It has a much different smell than regular Aura! It didn't appear to have quite the build as traditional Aura as well. I also noted on cleanup rinse of brushes and pot far more suds than normal. I used a 3/8 inch microfiber cover. It did have nice flow and leveling properties!

I would have to say though that over a sanded orange peel texture it's final appearance is very good! I was thinking it was going to have a little more of a grainy feel like the duration matte we have in one room! It appears to have maybe a 3 to 5 degree sheen .

The real test will be putting it into service! Things can look great but this is one product I am more interested in to see its durability and look as the kids abuse it!
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Old 12-21-2011, 06:22 PM   #30
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I think you will be happy with it. I haven't heard any complaints with condensating water streaking like with other paints.
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:08 PM   #31
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the only time i've used this paint is in my own bathroom. it dries to the touch very quickly. added a little bit of the bm paint extender for aura, which i think added a tiny bit of sheen to it. used the aura microfiber roller and the end result was really smooth. the color was true. havent had a problem with water or toothpaste leaving any stains.
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:33 PM   #32
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I have some beadboard going up in a bath, how do you think this would workif we sprayed the BM bath paint?
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:38 PM   #33
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I have some beadboard going up in a bath, how do you think this would workif we sprayed the BM bath paint?
Just fine, but its a Matte finish.
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Old 12-21-2011, 09:10 PM   #34
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Dean, sorry for the delayed response. Somehow I missed this one. Was probably busy not taking 6 of your polls about the same thing
. A common misconception in the paint industry is that metamerism is the phenomenon describing why paints don't match. The opposite is true. Metamerism is used to describe how two objects with differing spectral power distributions can appear to be the same color, or metamers. However, typically these objects will only appear to match under specific conditions. When the conditions change, most commonly the lighting input, there can be metameric failure (in this case illuminant metameric failure). There are many types of metameric failure observed in the paint industry. I too recommend Google and Wikipedia for additional information. Color matchers speak the truth when they say there is no match. Just like the line from The Matrix, "there is no spoon". We delude ourselves into thinking we can even match a competitors color. In actuality we are approximating the color with a tolerable variance for a consumer who doesn't know the difference. I am in no way suggesting we stop approximating colors, but believe true service for our customers starts with knowledge of the facts.


The quick answer is yes. A color chip produced with inks, dyes, lacquer, or whatever technology they employ will not have the same spectral power distribution as paint. Think of the spectral power distribution of an object as its fingerprint, as unique to the item as its chemical structure. The best a manufacturer can do is have their color tools appear to match (metamers) under a specific light setting with a hopefully low degree of metamerism. The current color tools seem to be better “tuned” for CP colorants and many dealers have noticed a higher degree of metamerism in the Gennex products. This being said, we check all colors under the “optimum” setting of the Benjamin Moore branded illuminaire, and have a low incidence of metameric failure in the Gennex system. As products are transitioned from CP to Gennex we may benefit from a re-tuning of the color tools and the situation may improve.

If you recall when the Gennex system was released, part of the training included a comparison of the CP colors and the Gennex counterparts. The colors which are similar in strength and tone (spectral power distribution) include, TG-G1, WH-W1, RX-R3, OY-Y3, GY-S2, BK-S1. Colors made with these pigments on either platform will display a low degree of metamerism. Any color made with Y2, B1, O1, R2, or M1, is likely to display a higher degree of metamerism as these colorants vary in tone and strength. Be particularly wary of colors using O1 or R2 as these Gennex variants are double the strength of their CP counterparts.

Color Stories full spectrum colors would be very difficult to approximate with inks, dyes, or lacquers with a low degree of metamerism. This is why the color chips and fan decks are coated with actual paint. For the most part, this produces a spectral color match with very little if any metameric failure.
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