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Old 06-28-2008, 09:28 AM   #1
 
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Default BIN for exterior spot priming

For use on a deck that gets ocean water on it, generally how large of a spot can I use BIN on as a spot primer? Also, for spot-priming a rectangular area, that is 1-2" wide, how long can the area be? If I exceed this does it crack, even if I use an oil based exterior primer over it?
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Old 06-28-2008, 05:57 PM   #2
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That depends on why you are spot priming a deck that gets ocean water on it with BIN, and what the deck is made out of
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Old 06-28-2008, 06:23 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slickshift View Post
That depends on why you are spot priming a deck that gets ocean water on it with BIN

glad someone else said it . . .
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Old 06-28-2008, 09:58 PM   #4
 
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The deck is a 1 year old Port Orford cedar deck that I foolishly put epoxy coated screws in. Of course the epoxy came off, and since the deck is exposed to salt water spray a few months a year, I ended up with medium-dark gray stains (I assume iron) usually around the screw holes. I have since replaced all screws with 316 grade stainless. I have sanded the decks down to bare wood, and tried to used 3 different types of oxalic acid brighteners, only undiluted impacts the stains, but within a few days the stain wicks back up and re-emerges. I assume the stain is throughout the depth of the wood. On top of that some boards seem to have a similar grey tint to them - it's lighter than the stains around the screws but still noticable even after completely sanding them. Adding insult to injury, I have many lighter areas where the oxalic acid went into the non-stained wood.
I tried staining the upstairs deck with TWP, it looks like hell - the stain accentuates the flaws, rather than conceals.
Soooo - I am going to have to go with a solid color stain, over a primer. I just believe that no matter what I do, my deck is so flawed that with anything less than a solid stain the flaws of the deck will overpower the niceness of the grain. For two 150 sq. ft decks I have put around 80 hours into them, which is ridiculous. I am quite concerned about the iron stains coming through, so I am overkilling it, with spot priming with BIN, then Ben Moore 024, then another coat of 094. I am using different versions because they are effective with slightly different problems. I am assuming since iron is tough to stop belleding through, this might work. Are there any serious flaws to the approach?
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Old 06-28-2008, 10:22 PM   #5
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Is this your deck or a customer's?



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Old 06-28-2008, 10:43 PM   #6
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The 024 is not rated for foot traffic...at least not suggested by the BM lab rats anyway
I believe they suggest the 094 for that, and I believe your substrate (cedar) would be reason #2 to use 094 (cedar bleed-though admittedly I don't know if that's an issue with Port Oxford Cedar)
The 094 should also take care of your steel bleed, but you can double up (spot prime in addition to full primer) if you are worried

My first thought is to strongly suggest a semi-trans as they hold up much better than solids on the ocean in temperate zones
I understand your desire for a solid, and if that's really what you want I would recommend Sikkens Rubbol DEK...if that's not available near you then the best available in your area regardless of price
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Old 06-28-2008, 11:10 PM   #7
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Just using a brightener will not remove existing products.
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Old 06-28-2008, 11:12 PM   #8
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They are sanded down to bare wood now
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Old 06-28-2008, 11:28 PM   #9
 
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I thought the 024 had better penetration than the 094. That was the rationale for the first coat being 024 (over spot primed BIN). Is that a mistake?
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Old 06-29-2008, 07:31 AM   #10
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Yes

IIRC, 094 is actually a "fast dry" version of the (100?) penetrating primer
Regardless, the 094 penetrates more than the 024, and doesn't take days to dry (like 100)
The 094 is also a better blocker for redwoods and cedars
And the boys up in the Ben Moore lab say 094 for floor traffic, not the 024

So, there's no reason for the 024
It might be OK, but it's not going to help, and could hinder
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Old 06-29-2008, 08:54 AM   #11
 
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Thanks for the feedback Slick, though on the Ben Moore website, the 023, 024, 094 and 366 are all listed as deck primers! A few other questions:

1. Even though Ben Moore says the first primer coat should not be thinned (probably for VOC issues), is it a good thing to do, and if so by how much? If so, is mineral spirits or paint thinner best?

2. Is there an optimal window period for putting on a second coat of primer, as well as the first and second topcoat?

3. Consumer Reports puts Flood Solid Color Deck and Siding as #1; Sikkens SRD as #2, and Behr Deck Plus Deck, Fence and Siding ahead of Cabots 1800 series. What are other's take on that?

Thanks much!
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Old 06-29-2008, 07:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denniso
Thanks for the feedback Slick, though on the Ben Moore website, the 023, 024, 094 and 366 are all listed as deck primers! A few other questions:
Yeah....there's no such thing as a universal primer. Many things are labeled by Marketing rather than reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by denniso
1. Even though Ben Moore says the first primer coat should not be thinned (probably for VOC issues), is it a good thing to do, and if so by how much? If so, is mineral spirits or paint thinner best?
No
Incorrect, it's because they really did try and make the best primer possible...if it needed to be thinner they would have made it thinner
neither mineral spirits or paint thinner is the best if you are trying to thin this for some reason
A conditioner would be
I don't recommend it
Quote:
Originally Posted by denniso
2. Is there an optimal window period for putting on a second coat of primer, as well as the first and second topcoat?
There is no reason for a second coat of primer
Quote:
Originally Posted by denniso
3. Consumer Reports puts Flood Solid Color Deck and Siding as #1; Sikkens SRD as #2, and Behr Deck Plus Deck, Fence and Siding ahead of Cabots 1800 series. What are other's take on that?
CR uses the scientific method and repeatable tests under lab conditions using criteria that sometime has little to do with actual paint usage in the real world
It's basically occasionally interesting, sometimes hilarious, often frustrating, but in reality utterly useless for paint tests

That being said, I haven't used the Flood, the Sikkens is totally killer, the Cabots is great, and the Behr is the most cruel and unusual punishment ever devised for decks, coatings application techs, and owners of the decks.
Not only does it apply badly, and look bad, and last a terribly short time, it also has the amazing ability to fall off some parts of the deck, while being totally un-removable on others.
Strippers turn what's left into SuperElasticBubblePlastic
It can't be sanded
You are doomed to turn over you deck boards, or re-deck
It shouldn't be ahead of anything
Behr Plus Deck Fence and Siding should be a dozen or so places down from vomit, just a few spots behind urine in the Deck Coatings Ratings

Quote:
Originally Posted by denniso
Thanks much!
Your welcome...anytime
Though you should post over at www.DIYChatroom.com rather than here
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