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Old 07-19-2014, 04:58 PM   #1
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Default BIN vs. Sherwin Williams White Pigmented Shellac Primer

Need about 25 gallons of shellac based primer to spray for an old house that reeks of cigaret smoke.

Just wondering if the Sherwin Williams White Pigmented Shellac Primer is on par with the BIN, since I may be able to save a few bucks with the Sherwin Williams product.

Thanks!
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Old 07-19-2014, 05:42 PM   #2
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Yes I use it all the time.
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Old 07-19-2014, 05:58 PM   #3
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Yes I use it all the time.
Thanks. I've recently started using SW here and there and that's good info to file away for the future.
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Old 07-19-2014, 06:08 PM   #4
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Warning, highjack coming

I had a SW worker tell me this morning that their all purpose primer was just as good as Gardz

I did not laugh in his face as he is way bigger than me but come on
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Old 07-19-2014, 06:44 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by chrisn View Post
Warning, highjack coming

I had a SW worker tell me this morning that their all purpose primer was just as good as Gardz

I did not laugh in his face as he is way bigger than me but come on
Ask Sherwin Williams!
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Old 07-19-2014, 08:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakesidex View Post
Need about 25 gallons of shellac based primer to spray for an old house that reeks of cigaret smoke.

Just wondering if the Sherwin Williams White Pigmented Shellac Primer is on par with the BIN, since I may be able to save a few bucks with the Sherwin Williams product.

Thanks!

BIN or XIM as I think it's called at SW are both great shellac primers. The problem that you may run into is nicotine bleeding through the BIN. It doesn't happen all the time but when it does you will need to use an oil as a primer on top of the BIN We've tried oil primers but found flat oil works the best to lock in any residual bleed throughs. Good luck.
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Old 07-19-2014, 08:40 PM   #7
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I've used both and like the bin better better hide less smell from bin
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Old 07-19-2014, 08:54 PM   #8
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BIN or XIM as I think it's called at SW are both great shellac primers. The problem that you may run into is nicotine bleeding through the BIN. It doesn't happen all the time but when it does you will need to use an oil as a primer on top of the BIN We've tried oil primers but found flat oil works the best to lock in any residual bleed throughs. Good luck.
Washed the walls down once with TSP and they were pretty nasty. Will probably give them another quick wash-down where I see some streaks. Just trying to put the odds in my favor

I prefer to use Cover Stain on the trim and BIN on the sheetrock but that's just me.

Thanks
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Old 07-19-2014, 09:01 PM   #9
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Bin dries a bit faster and goes a bit further per foot. I always find myself double priming any trouble areas and waiting 24 hours before topcoating.
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Old 07-19-2014, 10:03 PM   #10
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I prefer bin over SW shellac. Cheaper when u buy the 5r. Reasons: dry time, sandable, coverage and smell.
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Old 07-19-2014, 10:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldccm View Post
BIN or XIM as I think it's called at SW are both great shellac primers. The problem that you may run into is nicotine bleeding through the BIN. It doesn't happen all the time but when it does you will need to use an oil as a primer on top of the BIN We've tried oil primers but found flat oil works the best to lock in any residual bleed throughs. Good luck.
XIM is not a pigmented shellac, nor is it a SW product…XIM manufactures many very fine primers, XIM 0400, XIM UMA, Peel Bond and many others fabulous product…just not a pigmented shellac (or any shellac for that matter).

I've gotta believe that BIN (Zinsser) actually makes SW's pigmented white shellac. There are no other shellac manufacturers in the U.S. other than Zinsser, and given the newly formed consortium between India, Malaysia and a few other countries, created to keep shellac production low and prices high, I don't think this is the time for any manufacture to take on the capital expense of shellac manufacturing - especially in a rapidly diminishing market that is so overwhelmingly dominated by BIN anyway…Just sayin'
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Old 07-19-2014, 10:54 PM   #12
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Its all bug squirt, maybe some different fillers..
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Old 07-20-2014, 12:54 AM   #13
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Personally, I would use coverstain. From my experience it hides better, less smell than BIN, and more open time

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Old 07-20-2014, 01:23 AM   #14
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Coverstain has less odor than BIN? Wha? The BIN odor is gone in minutes...it's alcohol, and it evaporates quickly. CS alkyd odor stays around forever. CS gives me the old oil headache by the time I fill a cut bucket.
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Old 07-20-2014, 09:18 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric View Post
XIM is not a pigmented shellac, nor is it a SW product…XIM manufactures many very fine primers, XIM 0400, XIM UMA, Peel Bond and many others fabulous product…just not a pigmented shellac (or any shellac for that matter).

I've gotta believe that BIN (Zinsser) actually makes SW's pigmented white shellac. There are no other shellac manufacturers in the U.S. other than Zinsser, and given the newly formed consortium between India, Malaysia and a few other countries, created to keep shellac production low and prices high, I don't think this is the time for any manufacture to take on the capital expense of shellac manufacturing - especially in a rapidly diminishing market that is so overwhelmingly dominated by BIN anyway…Just sayin'
Shellac prices have always "bugged" me!
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Old 07-20-2014, 09:29 AM   #16
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Bin dries a bit faster and goes a bit further per foot. I always find myself double priming any trouble areas and waiting 24 hours before topcoating.
Sums up the two products. Bin dries faster and does cover a little better, but since I am spraying bin when I use it the coverage isn't much of a bother.

My SW pricing is around $40 gal.
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:10 AM   #17
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For some reason my price on BIN remained the same even though retail almost doubled. I bought 15 gallons for a fire job the other day though and my 5gal price went up. It was about 50 bucks more expensive to buy the fiver rather than 5 singgles. Unfortunately I needed the pails so spent and extra 150

BIN has never have me an issue on anything so I have no reason to try anything else. The price is passed along anyways so that isn't an issue.

Something's just need a good ol shellacin
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:13 AM   #18
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Wes I do a good bit of fire spray outs as well. We purchased over 200 gals last year, and the prices have remained high after they went up two years ago.

I am seeing that many restoration companies are now trying to save money and use oil instead. On an average spray out that is over $1500 in materials.
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:38 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mudbone View Post
Shellac prices have always "bugged" me!
That was good, mud…i like that

Even when shellac prices were consistently lower than they are today, there was still about a 3-4 year cycle where the prices spiked due to limited supply of shellac resin. The reason for this was over harvesting a limited supply of available bug poop. After all, lac beetles can only produce so much per year. To that point, there really wasn't much of synthetic alternative to a product like shellac, capable of doing what a shellac does.

Every year the pharmaceutical and food industry buys X amount of shellac resin for their uses…Zinsser buys 1.5 X for shellac production, and is the world's largest purchaser of shellac resin. Emerging economies, such as India & Malaysia, finally began to recognize the value of a limited supply commodity, like this resin, and the value it has to foreign markets. They can make a whole lot more money by selling to the pharmaceutical industry than to paint manufacturers, so the available supply becomes a little more "scarce"...

Zinsser, and their parent company, have some pretty smart and creative people working for them and have created a pretty slick alternative in synthetic BIN to relieve some of the demand for original BIN.

So, consider all that with the specialty manufacturing and safety equipment needed for shellac production, a decline in market demand, greater competition for available product (food and pharmaceuticals), and now with capable synthetic replacements, I cannot imagine why any company (even a Sherwin Williams) wouldn't just have Zinsser tole manufacture the product for them.

Makes sense to me, at least.
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:16 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric View Post
XIM is not a pigmented shellac, nor is it a SW product…XIM manufactures many very fine primers, XIM 0400, XIM UMA, Peel Bond and many others fabulous product…just not a pigmented shellac (or any shellac for that matter).



I've gotta believe that BIN (Zinsser) actually makes SW's pigmented white shellac. There are no other shellac manufacturers in the U.S. other than Zinsser, and given the newly formed consortium between India, Malaysia and a few other countries, created to keep shellac production low and prices high, I don't think this is the time for any manufacture to take on the capital expense of shellac manufacturing - especially in a rapidly diminishing market that is so overwhelmingly dominated by BIN anyway…Just sayin'

My bad. SW rep dropped off some xim and I just assumed that's what you guys were talking about. We use strictly BIN for fire spray outs. BIN is great considering we used to only use SPS.
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