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Old 07-30-2020, 05:08 PM   #1
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Question Botched job - never seen this before

Client had a wall re-plastered, after painting Dulux Vinyl matt ontop of two coats of supermatt, the wall started flashing, and in some areas has strange textured patches on.

Tried to solve it with BullsEye primer with no success. In total the wall has six layers of paint on it.

Any ideas?
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Old 07-30-2020, 06:37 PM   #2
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If the problem is solely flashing then Id use gardz on the entirety of the wall and recoat. Im not sure what to say about the texture.


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Old 07-30-2020, 06:52 PM   #3
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How long did you wait after the plaster was applied? And how did you check for moisture? Looks like concrete slab. Even if it's not below grade, I'd imagine one would err on the side of waiting longer. What does the texture seem to be? The plaster was rough? Tool marks from one of the six coats?


My general guess is going to be something to do with moisture.
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Old 07-30-2020, 11:13 PM   #4
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How about trying to put a real coat of paint!! Stop using 1/4 nap rollers
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Old 07-31-2020, 05:22 AM   #5
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Was the wall primed first over the plaster? Also, The Diamond Matt Paint drys really fast. Depending on how hot it is, it's probably drying as you put it on.. Give it a good pole sand.
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Old 07-31-2020, 06:22 AM   #6
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Check pH
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Old 07-31-2020, 08:10 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znong51 View Post
Client had a wall re-plastered, after painting Dulux Vinyl matt ontop of two coats of supermatt, the wall started flashing, and in some areas has strange textured patches on.

Tried to solve it with BullsEye primer with no success. In total the wall has six layers of paint on it.

Any ideas?
How long after it was plastered did you wait to prime and what primer did you use?
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Old 07-31-2020, 08:17 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe67 View Post
How long did you wait after the plaster was applied? And how did you check for moisture? Looks like concrete slab. Even if it's not below grade, I'd imagine one would err on the side of waiting longer. What does the texture seem to be? The plaster was rough? Tool marks from one of the six coats?

My general guess is going to be something to do with moisture.
I waited 5 days before I applied a mist coat supermatt onto the plaster. The plaster appeared to be completely dry, and humidity reading of the hallway was at around 40%

There's no tool marks, on parts of the wall there's a porous texture (appeared after applying Vinyl matt as shown below. It appears the wall has absorbed quicker on some areas than others.
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Old 07-31-2020, 08:20 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monarchski View Post
How long after it was plastered did you wait to prime and what primer did you use?
Waited 5 days, used Dulux Supermatt, designed for newly plastered walls. Applied 2 coats of Supermatt, problems started after applying two coats of Vinyl matt. I then re-primed the wall with zinsser 123, flashing and strange texture still there.
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Old 08-01-2020, 02:13 AM   #10
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needs a better primer, something not water based. kilz? coverstain?
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Old 08-01-2020, 05:54 AM   #11
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First of all. Supermatte is Not a primer. It's a paint. That is your first problem. Second, you said a Mist Coat? Does that mean you lightly sprayed it on? With no backrolling. You need to backroll with a quality drywall primer. At this point, I would pole sand the crap out of it, hit it with a coat of gardz and roll 2 more coats of your paint..
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Old 08-01-2020, 07:37 AM   #12
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Which primer are you using?
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Old 08-01-2020, 09:05 AM   #13
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Default From what I see.........

Since you already have 6 coats of whatever on this wall, here is what I would do.

Go over the wall with a random orbital sander hooked up to a vacuum to get any nubs off, although a good pole sanding would work. Draw a tight skim coat of Durabond over the whole wall, then sand when dry. If your skim coat is drawn tight you should have no problem sanding it. Next roll 2 thin coats of Gardz over the wall, letting each coat dry thoroughly. Anything paint you put over this should dry with a uniform sheen.

This might be more than what you want to do, but I have found that this works with problem walls, especially those that get lots of light and show imperfections easily.

Next you can read all the disagreements with this process.

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Old 08-01-2020, 03:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futtyos View Post
Since you already have 6 coats of whatever on this wall, here is what I would do.

Go over the wall with a random orbital sander hooked up to a vacuum to get any nubs off, although a good pole sanding would work. Draw a tight skim coat of Durabond over the whole wall, then sand when dry. If your skim coat is drawn tight you should have no problem sanding it. Next roll 2 thin coats of Gardz over the wall, letting each coat dry thoroughly. Anything paint you put over this should dry with a uniform sheen.

This might be more than what you want to do, but I have found that this works with problem walls, especially those that get lots of light and show imperfections easily.

Next you can read all the disagreements with this process.

futtyos

I agree with your process. What is the homeowner looking for at this point? Im assuming they care about the property having actual plaster applied to fix old plaster. Sounds like there was certainly some questionable moves at the beginning and that snowballed into the mess now. If they are still being patient with you doing it over with extensive prep is your only solution.


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Old 08-01-2020, 06:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futtyos View Post
Since you already have 6 coats of whatever on this wall, here is what I would do.

Go over the wall with a random orbital sander hooked up to a vacuum to get any nubs off, although a good pole sanding would work. Draw a tight skim coat of Durabond over the whole wall, then sand when dry. If your skim coat is drawn tight you should have no problem sanding it. Next roll 2 thin coats of Gardz over the wall, letting each coat dry thoroughly. Anything paint you put over this should dry with a uniform sheen.

This might be more than what you want to do, but I have found that this works with problem walls, especially those that get lots of light and show imperfections easily.

Next you can read all the disagreements with this process.

futtyos
If you do use Durabond for a skim coat (or Easy Sand for that matter), do not seal it with a primer such as 123. USG does not recommend either Durabond or Easy Sand for skim coats. I found out that sealing/priming skim coats of either of these products causes the skim coat to melt and get messed up. Sealing with Gardz does not result in this happening.

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Old 08-02-2020, 08:03 AM   #16
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Oh wait. You mean real plaster? Thought he meant mud. Aren't you suppose to wait 30 days before priming?
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Old 08-02-2020, 08:54 AM   #17
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Default Plaster cure time

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Originally Posted by finishesbykevyn View Post
Oh wait. You mean real plaster? Thought he meant mud. Aren't you suppose to wait 30 days before priming?
I'm no expert on straight plaster, but the Gardz TDS says to wait 24 for new plaster to cure before applying Gardz:

PLASTER
Allow new plaster to cure at least 24 hours before applying
GARDZ. Old bare plaster must be clean, dry and in sound
condition. Repair any cracks or holes with spackling paste or
joint compound before sealing the surface.

https://www.rustoleum.com/~/media/Di...ealer_TDS.ashx

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Old 08-03-2020, 10:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Oh wait. You mean real plaster? Thought he meant mud. Aren't you suppose to wait 30 days before priming?
Yep. Maybe longer depending on humidity.

At the very least, if you're trying to push the timeline, you need to use masonry primer like Loxon or Perma-Crete. I use it on raw hardi, because I once got burned by a hot batch.
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Old 08-04-2020, 01:09 AM   #19
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I think this guy is in UK, as I understand the UK plastering and paint game is an entirely different ball of wax compared to USA. UK plasters have more gypsum and less lime than ours, but almost nothing here is plastered now. UK paints also seem in some ways different, too.

Anyway, in USA they specifically recommend against using any cheaper vinyl (as in, PVA based) paint on top of plaster almost regardless of the cure time, as it does weird stuff and doesn't adhere to the plaster correctly. You need a "100% Acrylic" paint and primer for a first coat, something more like Benjamin Moore Regal.

For the plaster cure time, here in US the generally recommended time to paint plaster is 28 days, BUT, if the plasterer used some sort of retarder, all bets could be off on the final cure time.

I can think of two possibilities here, that I think apply to your job specifically, though...

The plasterer possibly used too much water while troweling it down in an attempt to not lose the wall. Basically ideally with plaster, you trowel it on, and get it flat about 95% and keep tooling it flat, you always have some amount of "fat" though, in this drying window. The fat depending on what stage will dry like the rest of the plaster (grey, shiny, hard) but if you keep pushing around a lot of fat when it's almost all dry, what ends up happening (I know this as I tried my hand at plastering myself) is the fat will be basically like an all purpose joint compound in texture and how it works, and you can fill in holidays and ridges that you left. Problem is, instead of curing, this fat actually air dries, so you have shiny cured plaster, then random patches of air dried basically joint compound that unlike the plaster you could actually turn to mush again with water washing it off, like ready mix joint compounds. How much any given plaster job has of this, I don't know. I think most in the world probably have a little of this going on, except maybe pure lime plaster with a super long working time.

The other time this happens, and this could have happened in your case, too, is the plaster may not have bonded evenly with the wall. This could be more likely what happened in your case, as usually the "fat" stuff leads to very tiny spots/areas, not large ones like you're showing. What happens is, plaster, especially over a plasterboard but also over surfaces like masonry, etc, needs a bonding agent, or needs a lot of water applied to the substrate to retard the drying of the coat of plaster or masonry you're applying to it, or needs a wetter mix. Basically all stuff adheres based on surface porosity and suction. So if you're plastering over bare plasterboard, you really need a bonding coat of PVA glue on the board painted on. Doing this slows down the overall dry time of the plaster by sealing the board, and provides a glue for it to bond more fully with the board. You want the plaster to cure before it dries. If it dries before it fully cures, it dries to a dusty joint compound kind of consistency that's very chalky and not nice feeling, and not the rock like feel of properly cured plaster. If you're going over a masonry substrate, you can substitute bonding agent by just spraying the surface with more water, as the water you spray on will retard the drying of the plaster you're applying as the thirsty masonry won't suck all the water out of the plaster (or even cement render coats, or things like tile mortar/etc, if you do that.)

So as far as what you can do next time, well, firstly let the client know about the possible issue if you see/feel those kind of chalky feeling patches compared to the rest of the plaster. Those chalky patches are where you'll flash through. Otherwise, you need a good primer to totally seal the surface first, then paint. I know it seems standard in UK to "just thin the emulsion for the first coat" but ideally a primer's job is to provide even surface porosity for the rest of the paint job. I've never personally used Gardz, it would probably work for this scenario, but probably even Bullseye would have been good enough as a first coat to provide even porosity across the whole surface. We need to do this even with drywall joint taping (drylining in UK speak) or if we patch a hole in a wall, spot prime over our joint compounds to make the wall surface not flash.

Anyway, I don't know the situation as I'm not you/the client/the plasterer, but this is my assessment of what happened.
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