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Old 07-03-2011, 10:29 AM   #1
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Default Cabot semi-solid oil deck stain

What the hell have they done to this product? Two months ago, I was redoing a deck that originally was treated with this product. I have used it in the past and thought it was a decent product. Well, I opened a gallon and the second I poured it into a pot to start brushing the railings, I knew something wasn't Kosher. After one brush strokie, I added a quart of thinner to a gallon. I did the railings and decided on Plan B for the deck itself the next day. When I returned, nothing had dried (thanks EPA).

Plan B turned out to be mixing 1 part CWF-oil to 2 parts Cabot semi-solid plus 4 ozs of Wilbond per gallon so it would dry before the next millenium. Worked out alright.
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:43 AM   #2
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When VOC changes went into affect, the large companies like Cabot's had a dilemma. Their oil based products had to meet a price point. VOC's and spirits are cheap compared to oil and resins. The 20% volume loss had to be replaced and the scramble was on to find a cost effective alternative. Cheap oils were thrown in. The issue of course is that these products were not designed to be modified with that simple addition and those of us that apply paid the price.. extended cure times, thick goopy products that don't penetrate and lousy longevity against mold. Its been maybe 7 years since the changes here in the northeast and none of the commercially available products have solved their issues. Not to mention most of them use cheap pigments. Transoxides are the longest lasting and look the best on properly prepped wood.

If you like the heavy hide factor of semi solids, I'd make a recommendation to try Armstrong Clark's semi solid line. Its a VOC compliant (real) oil that was designed from the beginning for 250ml/gal standards.
http://www.armclark.com/html/semi-solid.html

Their semi-trans stains have nicer colors and look better and are still loaded with pigment, so they cover nicely. They won't hide bad prep though. (ie: just pressure washing is not prep)
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Old 07-04-2011, 12:12 PM   #3
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had a similar problem last year. Was not as lucky as you, i did the whole deck ........ long story short , had to re-send and refinish .I will never use that again. Use to love Cabot.
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:04 PM   #4
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We are using the solid white on trim right now,its thin as hell and super shiny.It looks like gloss oil from the old days,along with its fogging and flashing On the siding we are using solid also,but its a tinted grey color.The sheen level isnt too bad,but this new product burns my eyes and throat much more than the old ever did.Aura here i come!
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:12 PM   #5
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Aura here i come!
Do you mean Arborcoat? I started using it last summer. So far, so good. One year later everything still looks like it was done last week. Of course if the prep isnt done properly it wont matter what product you use.
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Old 07-04-2011, 02:24 PM   #6
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Since being bought out by Valspar, and trying to meet VOC requirements, Cabot products are completely differenty then the were a couple years ago. We dropped the line this spring as The company itself is starting to become a pain to work with, and the products are not performing. It used to be a great company and great product. Can't say that at the moment. Its unfortunate. We switched to Sikkens and Flood products, and have been pleased with the performance.
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Old 07-04-2011, 05:17 PM   #7
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Woody- For cedar siding ive always liked solid oil because its a two coat system.So,with the Cabot being basically a crap shoot now,siding or decks,i might try BM semi solid oil on siding and maybe for decks also.The funny thing is that they still offer thses products in my state-(Ct.) but they were always way in the back of my store somewhere,with the Arborcoat being out front.
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick the painter View Post
Woody- For cedar siding ive always liked solid oil because its a two coat system.So,with the Cabot being basically a crap shoot now,siding or decks,i might try BM semi solid oil on siding and maybe for decks also.The funny thing is that they still offer thses products in my state-(Ct.) but they were always way in the back of my store somewhere,with the Arborcoat being out front.
Rick....I am in CT too. Most of my work is in Fairfield County. CT has been somewhat of a holdout regarding the EPA and has always tried to get away with as much as they could. No longer. Products I have loved in the past for cedar siding, especially Olympic Maximum Honey Gold and Cedartone, are now modified oil garbage.
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:01 PM   #9
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Thin with acetone. Faster evaporation kicks the alkyds out quicker. Apply thinner and nit like your use to. Can't tell you to thin it but acetone moves faster. VOC alkyds have higher solids and thicker consistency. Paint thinner thins. Acetone thins and evaporates. Xylene ok too.
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Old 07-06-2011, 11:32 PM   #10
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Well, I can sell the 550 voc 1400 series, no problems here. That product has been around for a while. I assume you guys are talking about the 170 0series, the low voc? If the 550 voc ever gets taken away from us, I will have to change stain companies, as people here seem to hate Cabot's low voc stains. And I haven't come across a compnay yet that sells a good quality, low voc semi solid stain.
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Old 07-06-2011, 11:33 PM   #11
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I think Sansin has three tintable bases for stains, everything from a transparent base to a semi solid base with their own colorants. We'll probally move to that in the future.
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Old 07-09-2011, 06:57 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by c65jones View Post
Since being bought out by Valspar, and trying to meet VOC requirements, Cabot products are completely differenty then the were a couple years ago. We dropped the line this spring as The company itself is starting to become a pain to work with, and the products are not performing. It used to be a great company and great product. Can't say that at the moment. Its unfortunate. We switched to Sikkens and Flood products, and have been pleased with the performance.
I have used Flood CWF for 30 years, mainly for roof preservations. Back in the 80s it looked like 5-30 motor oil. The Roof Grade was a superior product. The EPA first messed with it in '90 or '91. That is when they added the orange colored crap to it for the first time. I know the VOCs have been lowered from time to time over the years. It changed quite a bit in '08, but there was no drying problem

This year however it is like all the other products. It takes forever to dry. This is not a problem on roofs, but decks are another matter. When spraying roofs I use a 531 tip with the pressure at a minimum virtually eliminating atomization. The '11 CWF-oil seems to atomize more than the previous version. Is this a result of the lowered VOCs?
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
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I haven't come across a compnay yet that sells a good quality, low voc semi solid stain.
Benjamin Moore....Arborcoat. Everyone is very pleased with it so far. Have a 20gal job coming up with it. Customer loves the stuff. Applies well, dries fairly quickly.
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:51 PM   #14
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Hi NC, I know that the Arborcoat is the future,but have you sold much of the BM semi oil and semi- solid? Im wondering if its as evil as Cabots.......
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Old 07-10-2011, 11:16 PM   #15
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Hi NC, I know that the Arborcoat is the future,but have you sold much of the BM semi oil and semi- solid? Im wondering if its as evil as Cabots.......
Nope, can't say that I have. For whatever reason the tinted semi's (the ones we tint with standard colorants) just don't seem to hold up very well. Not sure of the semi-solid oils. I liked the fact that with Arborcoat on the WB system, color retention and rub off should be far less than the other products.
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