Professional Painting Contractors Forum banner

Can you do the job for $100 less?

16K views 139 replies 47 participants last post by  MKap 
#1 ·
I looked at a painted over popcorn ceiling removal job last week. Sq Ft was 432. I priced it for removal, painting and supplying paints / all materials @ $1,400.

HO calls me up and says, "we want to hire you", "but we got a price of $1,200 from another contractor", "we will give you the job if you can do the work for $1,300".

I told her, "my price is firm". So I get an email today stating, "we have deceided to go with the 1200 dollar job thank you for your time and cnsideration"! -- misspelled words are theirs.

Any feedback? :jester:
 
#63 ·
I look at it this way, you were going to lose a $100 instead you lost $1300 and potential future client/clients and referrals. Sometimes you have to make a customer happy whatever it takes. I understand what you mean though, it makes you think wtf.

I have done over the years and worked out pretty good for me. I don't make it a habit either. If they are really nice people and just want to feel like they got a deal. No problem but don't think it is going to happen on every job I do for you. haha! No different than working with someones budget in my opinion. I do quality work and use quality materials either way as long as it works out for both of us. Sometimes it is worth not making as much to build a future relationship with people.
 
#70 ·
I look at it this way, you were going to lose a $100 instead you lost $1300 and potential future client/clients and referrals. Sometimes you have to make a customer happy whatever it takes. I understand what you mean though, it makes you think wtf.
I disagree! You can not worry about the potential repeat biz and referrals you may have gotten, from a job you didn't get. That is foolish. In most cases, when you lose the bid, it was due to price. Only thing is, most customers don't tell you that.

A month ago, i bid $4,200 on a job. The woman didn't get any other estimates, she said she wanted me. When I gave her the prices, she said, "is that the best you can do"? I said, "yes it is" the next week I started her job for $4,200.

Point is, it's a bluff game sometimes. You can't cave in on every estimate and knock a few hundred dollars off, at the HO request. Like the above, sometimes holding your ground pays off.

If you knock off $100 dollars for every "1 weeks worth a work", you will lose $5,000 annually.
 
#69 ·
Dbo said:
I look at it this way, you were going to lose a $100 instead you lost $1300 and potential future client/clients and referrals. Sometimes you have to make a customer happy whatever it takes. I understand what you mean though, it makes you think wtf. I have done over the years and worked out pretty good for me. I don't make it a habit either. If they are really nice people and just want to feel like they got a deal. No problem but don't think it is going to happen on every job I do for you. haha! No different than working with someones budget in my opinion. I do quality work and use quality materials either way as long as it works out for both of us. Sometimes it is worth not making as much to build a future relationship with people.
I wouldn't say you lost $1300 instead of $100. That is where a lot of guys go wrong.

You have to work for the $1400 and if they want the same job for $1300 done the same way then you just lost $100 profit. On a job this size that is probably a sizeable amount of the profit. Sure you lost the potential referrals but with that they would have told their friends you can be talked down in price and you set up a slippery slope for yourself.

If you are starving for work and it's your first lead in weeks, sure eat it and do the job. If it is just another job you are pricing and you will need to schedule the work, knowing you have lots of other jobs to do, it is not worth it.
 
#71 ·
Having read the original post and all the responses, I can't help but think this customer is nuts. I mean, if I were really wanting to make a deal I would say, "Hey, 2 of the bids are within $200 of each other, my budget for this project is $1,000. Can either of you bring your price down to an area within my budget?" What's the point of saying we have a bid of $1200, yours is $1400, but we are willing to pay you $1300 to do the work. Just not a very bright negotiating ploy which leads me to believe that leaving this one on the table is the right thing to do.
 
#95 ·
OK, well circling back to the original post. Would I give up $100 on a $1400 estimate?

That is 7%.

Evidently I need to raise my prices because I don't have the luxury of such a prebate. Sorry, no, goodbye.
That was my point from the beginning.

My rates are fair.
Prospect of future work and good relationships aren't edible.
Phone might ring tomorrow with a real client who's willing to pay what I'm worth for a full interior and then I'm too busy doing your sorry arse popcorn ceiling.

Thanks but no thanks.
 
#76 ·
That 7% could well be the profit that such a job generates, so by lowering your price $100, you've agreed to do the work for no profit!

Profit= sales-expenses ( including owners salary).

Companies need to cover all their costs, pay their employees and owner, and still make beyond that. Profits help lubricate the wheels so you can move forward; if you're not generating profit... well you get the idea.
 
#78 ·
We can try to tell ourselves things we tell ourselves to make ourselves believe that we'll make it up somewhere else, but...its just a matter of how much of a Santa Claus you want to be in the first quarter after Christmas.

Bah. Humbug.

I totally need to raise my prices to play poker at painttalk.

These dudes roll so high that 7% is nada.

Tell you what?

How about on your next 10 estimates, when they reply that they would like to hire you...

At the last minute...

YOU TELL THE CUSTOMER THAT THERE IS ANOTHER CUSTOMER WHO WILL PAY YOU 7% MORE and you give them the chance to match it...

Good luck with that, philanthropists.

I understand the psychology. Its easier to be a martyr and post online all day long about how much customers suck.

Whose got the time?
 
#97 ·
We can try to tell ourselves things we tell ourselves to make ourselves believe that we'll make it up somewhere else, but...its just a matter of how much of a Santa Claus you want to be in the first quarter after Christmas.

Bah. Humbug.

I totally need to raise my prices to play poker at painttalk.

These dudes roll so high that 7% is nada.

Tell you what?

How about on your next 10 estimates, when they reply that they would like to hire you...

At the last minute...

YOU TELL THE CUSTOMER THAT THERE IS ANOTHER CUSTOMER WHO WILL PAY YOU 7% MORE and you give them the chance to match it...

Good luck with that, philanthropists.

I understand the psychology. Its easier to be a martyr and post online all day long about how much customers suck.

Whose got the time?
Oh I like that one!!!:thumbup:
 
#80 ·
You can make it up easy, ask to leave your sign in the yard for an extra week, use 1/2 mill plastic for the walls and floors, forget the freaking contact paper.

You do the job, customer is happy, they call you back for something else, add a few hundred bucks to the price for the big question "Will you do it for less?"

7%?? it's a 100 bucks, less then two billable hours for some guys here. I know you going to say "If you did that on every job it's going to be a million dollars you lost by the end of the year" Not going to happen.

I would bet less then 5% of the jobs you bid on, people will ask for a better price.

Pat
 
#88 ·
I think some people get confused as to whether they are buying or selling when they do a paint estimate.

That is why, when in doubt, toss some Benjies around like you just don't care.

Whether it is your money, or the clients, it is impressive to not care about such trivial matters.

Newsflash...sometimes, savvy clients will actually do that nonsense to test you on how you value money.

If you don't value your own, you sure as crimminy won't value theirs.
 
#91 ·
The fact that contractors get appalled if a potential client tries to renegotiate a small amount like $100.00 dollars IMO is silly. I understand that we are not a flea market where its common practice to bargain, but we do work in a trade with no set standards of pricing. The price variances from one paint company to another can range from several hundreds of dollars to even a couple of grand for the same job. The client has nothing what so ever to go on for what a paint job should cost. Their helpless on who they should chose. So for me personally, dropping a c note on a $1400.00 job wont break me in any way, shape, or form and in the end everybody makes out.
 
#93 ·
Homeowners will exploit a painters self consciousness, in regard to the painter's awareness of being positioned on the lower end of the building trade stratus. Add to that the realization that painters are competing in one of the most saturated trade markets in the home improvement industry, it's no wonder painters are willing to negotiate while the homeowner is within a fish nets distance. Unless you are a hoidy toidy painting contractor with an exclusive clientele list, its feast or famine baby.

Is that true, or am I talking out of my gas hole?
 
#103 ·
L O L..................I quoted a job (roof restoration) for a relation who was a car sales manager. I told him I would do the who job for cost price, no profit (good cousin and my boys need a few days to cover wages). So after I went thru the associated costs involved he asked me if I could do better on the price if he paid cash!.........they never give up!
 
#105 ·
I see it both ways CJ. funny thing is you were upset enough to post about it and disagree on different outlooks on it. I think it bothers you enough that you are secretly kicking yourself in the ass for losing the bid over a hundo! haha.

Like I said I have done it over the years but I don't get asked very often either. Maybe 2-3 times a year if that. If it was more and always agree to what they wanted that wouldn't be smart business. I choose myself to give discounts or gift cards to my potential clients or good clients that give me a lot of work and referrals.

One of them is a couple that asked for $200 off the first job I did for them on a $1800 quote to match another contractors price. Said they wanted to hire me but wanted to see if I would lower the price. I asked to see the other quote and looked it over. Thought is was strange because it hadn't happen to me before but I gave it to them after making some adjustment to the project and have been doing work for them, friends and family for years. They have never asked again nor their friends and family. I have 5 clients I sent a $25 gift card from Menards to for the holidays as a thank you for their business and referrals! That $125 has not hurt me yet even if I was to not get anymore work or referrals from them.

I look at it as an investment for potential future work and referrals. I spend more on advertising and get no results sometimes. I know a $100 won't hurt my business or I would be doing something wrong! We all run our businesses differently and look at things from a different point of view.

Guess what I am saying is sometimes you got to think ahead of what the future may bring. Be positive and you never know what could come of it!
 
#106 ·
I see it both ways CJ. funny thing is you were upset enough to post about it and disagree on different outlooks on it. I think it bothers you enough that you are secretly kicking yourself in the ass for losing the bid over a hundo! haha.
Dbo, I wasn't upset, I was annoyed.

If you think this is the first time I encountered a HO trying to get me to compromise my price, or get a freebee from me, guess again.

I have lost bids on jobs up to 25k. I don’t blink an eye to lost bids. And this $1,400 job was easily replaced with 6 others.

Truth is, I am tired of people trying to get a freebee out of me - period!
Like I said I have done it over the years but I don't get asked very often either. Maybe 2-3 times a year if that. If it was more and always agree to what they wanted that wouldn't be smart business. I choose myself to give discounts or gift cards to my potential clients or good clients that give me a lot of work and referrals.
One of them is a couple that asked for $200 off the first job I did for them on a $1800 quote to match another contractors price. Said they wanted to hire me but wanted to see if I would lower the price. I asked to see the other quote and looked it over. Thought is was strange because it hadn't happen to me before but I gave it to them after making some adjustment to the project and have been doing work for them, friends and family for years. They have never asked again nor their friends and family. I have 5 clients I sent a $25 gift card from Menards to for the holidays as a thank you for their business and referrals! That $125 has not hurt me yet even if I was to not get anymore work or referrals from them.
I look at it as an investment for potential future work and referrals. I spend more on advertising and get no results sometimes. I know a $100 won't hurt my business or I would be doing something wrong! We all run our businesses differently and look at things from a different point of view.
Guess what I am saying is sometimes you got to think ahead of what the future may bring. Be positive and you never know what could come of it!
Do you think I never caved in to a HO like this before? Guess again.
Last time I gave a HO money off on a job, we wound up in Small Claims Court. No repeat biz, no referrals - just a lawsuit.
 
#107 ·
We bid on a job the other day, an interior office space and garage NC. The wife liked our price and both Carly and myself. Her husband looked up an old price he had for a repaint of 2 rooms and told his wife no way would he pay our price. She had already confirmed colors which I told her I would call in and order. (The whole process took less than 24 hrs to write up and agree on) Plus we had to do most of it today if we planned on spraying.

We talked to her after her husband said no and came to a fair deal (which is pretty much exactly what we would have charged minus the trim work which we didn't end up doing yet). We got it done and she was very happy. She loved our work and said she will call us back to do more in the room once it's done. All said and done we are loosing around a hundred bucks off our original price.

There is another painter painting the exterior. I know his company and work well, he is good. But very over priced. We bid a lot against him, we don't have his over head so we come in cheaper 95% of the time. It's one of those weird situations that I'm sure some of us have been in and don't like it. But work is work.
 
#113 ·
I always leave a little wriggle room to adjust my price. Over estimate the cost of material, and the amount. If they think my price is outrageous, but like me I say I'll do it on T&M, and whatever is cheaper you pay. Only once had my price been more than on T&M.

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk
 
#114 ·
I hate the idea of T&M up to a limit. But you would still have to finish.

It's a win win for the customer but what's the point of giving a price for them anyways.

If the cap is too high they will reject it. So your basically still competing on price but have to have your hours watched?


Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com
 
#117 ·
When we do T&M work for new clients, we update them on a regular basis with the running total. For smaller jobs, that would be every day ; for bigger ones, every week. The keeps them apprised of the budget, and avoids end-of-the -project unpleasantness.

We didn't always do that, and it led to me eating a fair amount of crow, as well as some VERY expensive pizza.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top