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Can you do the job for $100 less?

16K views 139 replies 47 participants last post by  MKap 
#1 ·
I looked at a painted over popcorn ceiling removal job last week. Sq Ft was 432. I priced it for removal, painting and supplying paints / all materials @ $1,400.

HO calls me up and says, "we want to hire you", "but we got a price of $1,200 from another contractor", "we will give you the job if you can do the work for $1,300".

I told her, "my price is firm". So I get an email today stating, "we have deceided to go with the 1200 dollar job thank you for your time and cnsideration"! -- misspelled words are theirs.

Any feedback? :jester:
 
#6 ·
I don't think that^ happens as much as we would like to believe. And in this particular instance, $200.00 dollars wasn't going to tilt the level of quality for better or worse IMO. Fact is, some painters are faster then others with equal skill sets. And as far as materials goes, one might prefer using a primer finish type paint, reducing the process, and still provide a similar if not equal result. Especially, given the advancements in paint and accessibility to all leading brands.

More then likely, this one was simply lost to a sales deficiency rather then to some sordid and underhanded act from a Hackabilly.
 
#3 ·
You lost the job over $100. I stand firm by my prices as well but would not email back "price is firm". It leaves a bad taste. Most times people will appreciate a firm, "no" and go with you anyway. These people unfortunately felt, for whatever reason, you were not worth $200 more.
 
#11 ·
You lost the job over $100. I stand firm by my prices as well but would not email back "price is firm". It leaves a bad taste. Most times people will appreciate a firm, "no" and go with you anyway. These people unfortunately felt, for whatever reason, you were not worth $200 more.
That is not what I actually said. I was figuratively speaking.
I lost the job because I would not drop my price. They wanted me.

This was her email to me on Thursday: "hi could you please call rich tomorrow at your convenience. he spoke to the owner of *** painting and powerwashing. we have a card with the price of the ceiling on it. rich can give you the details. i know rich will be here from 8 am on. thanks for your quick response. karen"

Honestly, she turned my off by telling me who the other contractor was and his price... Let him do the job... :eek:
 
#4 · (Edited)
Can we? Yes. Would we? Probably not, unless the cupboards were bare.

I've long been suspicious about those prices from "other contractors". First, we've encountered some clients who seem to make them up just for bargaining purposes. Secondly, without seeing detailed specifications, I assume the other bidder will be cutting corners wherever he can, fewer coats, lower quality materials, etc.

IMHO, you were right to stick to your guns, although, as Ken pointed out, the way you phrase that can have a big impact. There are plenty of possible unpleasant surprises involved in a project like this: sometimes we been able to stride along (in stilts) with a taping knife and a container, leaving a surface ready to prime. Other times, it's been hours of overhead work leaving us with a ceiling that needs tons of repairs and re-taping.
 
#7 ·
We never do removal types of jobs by a bid always T&M. I guess it depends on how busy you are, $100 isn't a whole lot to drop your price by but then again popcorn removal is hard work.

Bill I would agree with you if the other guy was under a grand, but $200 lower doesn't mean he will screw up the job, just he screwed himself out of a couple hundred more dollars.
 
#10 ·
Your price is your price. I'll barter once in a while, but if I hear the magic words ' you're 'x' amount higher than ____' my price becomes firm and I become even more detailed on what is and isn't included. Been down that street before, and this is just one of many warning signs.
 
#13 ·
I looked at a painted over popcorn ceiling removal job last week. Sq Ft was 432. I priced it for removal, painting and supplying paints / all materials @ $1,400.

HO calls me up and says, "we want to hire you", "but we got a price of $1,200 from another contractor", "we will give you the job if you can do the work for $1,300".

I told her, "my price is firm". So I get an email today stating, "we have deceided to go with the 1200 dollar job thank you for your time and cnsideration"! -- misspelled words are theirs.

Any feedback? :jester:
"I'd love to work for you and you've got yourself a deal on one condition, if it takes longer than expected would you be willing to pay me 7% more than my original bid of $1400? I've got a contract here ready for you to sign."

For the reasons outlined by other members here, popcorn ceilings aren't as straight forward as they appear, and the pitfalls can be costly. And it's not the most pleasant task in the world either.
 
#16 · (Edited)
I looked at a painted over popcorn ceiling removal job last week. Sq Ft was 432. I priced it for removal, painting and supplying paints / all materials @ $1,400.

HO calls me up and says, "we want to hire you", "but we got a price of $1,200 from another contractor", "we will give you the job if you can do the work for $1,300".

I told her, "my price is firm". So I get an email today stating, "we have deceided to go with the 1200 dollar job thank you for your time and cnsideration"! -- misspelled words are theirs.

Any feedback? :jester:
Sorry to say but you guys are cheap....and your competitors suck.....In my days those jobs are the ones that hurt painters life span and I charged what I'm worth take it at a loss...move on I did those jobs for a cheap price and bit the bullet. ..until I learned so fyi just saying bow lot of prep!! Lots of variables instead of fast buck don't be a hack!!
 
#21 · (Edited)
Actually, I believe if its a suspected ACM (asbestos containing material) you can proceed with removal without testing, provided you have the proper PPE (Personal Protective Equipment), the proper removal methods, and proper disposal with hazardous label. You probably have to also communicate the hazards to the home owner. I'm not certain any of that ^ is correct. I would test it first.
 
#43 ·
I was in the asbestos removal business (as an employee) some 30+ years ago.

These days it's lead paint that's the new "in vogue" hazard to be dealt with.

I guess in about 10 or 20 years, the old glycol tint based paints will be the new worry.

And then, after I'm dead and buried, my kids and grandkids will be warned about the hazards of the old Gennex tint systems.
 
#34 ·
CJ-Newfield said:
BTW - the other guy gave her a price on the back of his business card. Estimate and last contact to HO: Hi Karen, After consideration, I will not be able to lower my price. I am one of the most detail oriented craftsman offering services of this nature and I deliver an excellent end result. My prices are also the actual price. There will be no price changes in the middle of the project and no surprises. Here is a more detailed Scope of Work. AREAS COVERED IN THIS AGREEMENT: Family room SCOPE OF WORK: removal of popcorn ceiling, preparation for painting, two coats of latex ceiling paint. PROTECTION: floors to be 16,853.75 with 3ml plastic then line floor with contractor paper, walls to be draped with 1ml plastic. TOUCH UP: re-do the wall “cut in” were the wall meets the ceiling line. (customer to supply wall touch-up paint). PREP WORK: repair nail pops and minor imperfections, tape structural cracks. PAINTS USED: Zinsser paint & primer in one CONTRACTOR AGREES TO PROVIDE ALL LABOR, MATERIAL, AND EQUIPMENT (UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED IN THIS AGREEMENT) TO COMPLETE THE WORK DESCRIBED IN THIS AGREEMENT. TOTAL PRICE: $1,400
I don't think your response or the fact that you are holding to your price is out of line. If I may offer a piece of advice it may be to follow the "feel, felt, found" response method.

Karen,

I would like to thank you for taking the time to meet with me the other day and discuss your project needs. Attached you will find a detailed proposal for the work we discussed.

I want you to know that as a homeowner myself, I understand how you feel about getting the most out of your money. We have had many satisfied customers who felt the same way you did in relation to the price for the scope of work involved; however what they found was the extra time, protective measures, and quality of work were well worth the investment.

In order to deliver the professional results I know you want, I will be unable to lower my proposal price; however, I would be happy to discuss options to meet your budget. Please feel free to contact me at your connivence with questions or concerns.

Respectfully,

Again I think your response if fair, just offering a thought.
 
#35 ·
The more time I get under my belt the less I give a chit about lost bids. Advice to fellow newbs... when loosing a bid, quickly think it over and walk on. I use to dwell on lost bids for days. It's a very dangerous mindset to second guess your estimates. Desperately wanting to close every submitted bid is a bad for business.
 
#44 ·
I don't think there's anything wrong with negotiating price with a prospective client. You probably already have over $100 invested in bidding the job anyways. If I needed the work and there was any profit to be made, then it would have probably agreed. I actually would have probably countered with a $50 discount offer. Of course, if I was booked, then it would be a thanks, but no thanks situation.
 
#45 ·
I personally would have said yes. If $100 less on a job is going to hurt me I'm doing something wrong.

I had a guy that I gave him a price of $1,850 for a job and was asking me what do we need to do to make it $1,000. I said I could do it for $1,800 but nothing less.
 
#46 ·
The problem I have with situations like this is that I don't really understand where people get the idea that it is even appropriate to ask contractors to match other contractors bids. In my mind, it's rude. I don't want to work for rude people unless I am desperate for cash and it's a red flag. If someone has the balls to ask you to lower your price, what other things might they develop the courage to ask you after you are working in their home?
 
#48 ·
...............And the call could have gone like this .......Owner

"we want to hire you", "but we got a price of $1,200 from another contractor", "we will give you the job if you can do the work for $1,300"

You

"Thank you so much for the call back. Just so we are both on the same page, you said you would like to go with us is that correct?" (that might be the end of it but probably not) Just say nothing till they answer the question.

Owner

"Yes we would like to go with you. But we got another quote and it was $200 cheaper" Can you come down on your price $100"

You

"Ok, so you would like me to give you a discount before giving me the approval to start is that right?"

Owner

"Yes"

You

"In my business I don't mark up my price so I can latter mark it down but I apply a $50 discount if your prepared to give me the approval on that job today"

Owner

"Ok sold"
 
#56 ·
That seems like a textbook case of the "sunk cost" or "Concorde" fallacy, the idea that we make the decision to continue with a project because of the time/effort/money that we've already put into it.

As far as the second point, it's been our experience that, to put it bluntly, cheap clients have cheap friends. It's nice to have clients help spread the word about your company, but not so nice when they also assure their friends that you can be convinced to work for less.
 
#52 ·
Monstertruck said:
The nature of the project would have been the main reason I wouldn't want to drop my price, though many of the suggestions for doing so are valid. Hopefully you've got the Planex in your corner on projects like this.
So true. Popcorn that hasn't been painted is a piece of cake, painted popcorn not so much.
 
#54 ·
I think this job is the painter's equivalent of "buying a pig in a poke". While I'd be strongly inclined NOT to drop the price, I would probably consider it with a revised proposal that included a concealed conditions clause to cover additional repairs that might become necessary once the GWB is exposed.
 
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#53 ·
If I was willing to accept less based on the premise that an equally exceptionally contractor had bid the same project lower I would at least ask for a copy of the other contractors estimate. That way you weed out the BSers and you can see how your competition does things. Lots of big companies price match but not one of them takes the customers word for it.
 
#55 ·
It's a $100 FFS.
Personally, I'm annoyed when a small job 'requires' a massive dog and pony show proposal. Let's bleed even more margin out of this piss ant job that I'll regret scheduling when things are really rocking!

For all we know the other guy pulled a Planex out of his van, showed the HO a youtube of it in action and clearly defined the project using, you know, spoken words. The way things were done before contractors debated the meaning of shoe lace color for estimates.

Once I've committed to providing a quote/pursuing a job I'm not going to sweat a minor discount like this. Hundreds of dollars off is an issue, $100 is not.
 
#59 ·
Both sides had pretty valid points. I learn a lot more reading through the threads most of the time. Lots of awesome ideas from a lot of different business models. Thank you all for throwing your 2 cents in. I, for one, appreciate all the little tips for improvement and affirmations of my own good practices that I pick up in a lot of the subtext of these threads.

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