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Old 06-30-2018, 12:43 PM   #1
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Default Can't get doors clean (prep)

10 solid core doors (dentist office). Got a spray room all ready. Goofed off adhesive residual. Cleaned doors with Krud Kutter TSP sub. Lightly sanded and dusted off. Saw some dust I missed and hit with a wet rag. Rag was yellowy. Took the rag to the rest of the door...yellow coming off everywhere with just water. Looks like the stain color.

I'm not sure what to do or why this is happening. Do you think the previous owner had the doors "refinished" and they only stained them and did not put a clear over the stain?

This is ridiculous and setting me back big time.

Primer I was planning on using is Stix. Really don't want to switch to Cover Stain in this environment.


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Last edited by 804 Paint; 06-30-2018 at 12:54 PM..
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Old 06-30-2018, 04:03 PM   #2
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10 solid core doors (dentist office). Got a spray room all ready. Goofed off adhesive residual. Cleaned doors with Krud Kutter TSP sub. Lightly sanded and dusted off. Saw some dust I missed and hit with a wet rag. Rag was yellowy. Took the rag to the rest of the door...yellow coming off everywhere with just water. Looks like the stain color.

I'm not sure what to do or why this is happening. Do you think the previous owner had the doors "refinished" and they only stained them and did not put a clear over the stain?

This is ridiculous and setting me back big time.

Primer I was planning on using is Stix. Really don't want to switch to Cover Stain in this environment.


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Try BIN Shellac based primer on those doors.
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Old 06-30-2018, 04:14 PM   #3
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Try BIN Shellac based primer on those doors.
Yup.one and done.

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Old 06-30-2018, 06:30 PM   #4
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Try BIN Shellac based primer on those doors.
Yup.one and done.

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Old 06-30-2018, 09:44 PM   #5
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I just don't know what it was. We cleaned again with KK and then rinsed really well with water until the rags were pretty clean. Did a spot test with Stix and it would not scratch off.

I thought about both BIN and CS but I'm not a fan of spraying either in a tight space with no way to vent. Also these doors will take plenty of abuse and I find that BIN can get brittle and chip fairly easily.


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Old 07-01-2018, 12:01 AM   #6
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How do you stop the tannin from bleeding with waterbased primer? I'm all for waterbased if it works and I know sticks will bond to things but I have never had any luck with blocking stains or tannins from waterbased primers. Smart prime was probably the best I have used but I dont think I would trust it on anything but the simplest stain.
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Old 07-01-2018, 01:48 AM   #7
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Unfortunately you might be stuck having to use a oil based stain blocker primer.


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Old 07-01-2018, 10:17 AM   #8
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I just don't know what it was. We cleaned again with KK and then rinsed really well with water until the rags were pretty clean. Did a spot test with Stix and it would not scratch off.

I thought about both BIN and CS but I'm not a fan of spraying either in a tight space with no way to vent. Also these doors will take plenty of abuse and I find that BIN can get brittle and chip fairly easily.


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Then don’t spray the primer. I do a ton of doors and spraying the primer is great when convenient but I have no issues applying it with a brush or roller if necessary. It will get a sanding anyway so a perfect application just isn’t needed. If you feel you must spray for time’s sake, well, guess you have to decide what’s more important in this scenario: fixing the staining, speed, location of where the work is being done, etc.

How we do a job is often driven by the conditions under which we have to work. And although “compromise” is a word I dislike, sometimes it’s what we have to do to get er’ done.
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Old 07-01-2018, 07:08 PM   #9
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I agree rolling bin or an oil primer then sanding would have given me piece of mind. Most oil primer and bin sand easily.
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Old 07-01-2018, 08:59 PM   #10
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The Stix test area (done before a second cleaning) was done on one of the "dirtier" doors and passed the fingernail gouge test and I did not notice any bleed. Stix does have some blocking ability. Anyway, all the doors are off and ready to be sprayed but I cannot paint them until Thursday when I have a helper again. Tomorrow I'll prime the full backside of one of the closet doors by hand and see if I get any bleed thru over the next couple of days. If I don't I'll continue with Stix.

These are maple doors and I have not had tannin issues with maple using waterborne primer before. Though I'm still unsure of what I was actually wiping off the doors, my best guess is that it was unsealed waterborne stain. I don't think a wet rag would have activated the stain like it did were it oil-based.

BIN does sand very easily and is no problem to spray. It cleans out of the sprayer easily. But I don't like how brittle it is.

I have never run oil thru my machine and have no idea how much mineral spirits it would take to thoroughly clean it. But the biggest concern I have with using Coverstain is that no matter how many times
I have used it in a situation where I would want it sanded down, it has been impossible to sand well. And that has gone against everything I have heard about its sandibility. I have tried gallon sizes, quart sizes, thinned it considerably and I can never sand those brush strokes out. Gummy for days. Even weeks later test boards have still not sanded well. EXCEPT for the rattle can version. You can sand that out in 20 minutes to a fine powder.

So you can see my hesitation in using Covertstain for these doors.


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Old 07-01-2018, 11:57 PM   #11
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How about a slow dry oil. Much better sanding than cover stain and may still be enough to block any bleeding.
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Old 07-02-2018, 12:47 AM   #12
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48 hrs to sand and topcoat tho right? Can't.


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Old 07-02-2018, 08:14 AM   #13
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Can't get doors clean (prep)-paint_template-1.jpg

Used SW Pro Block a while back and was surprised at how well it powdered up when sanding. Felt like it was almost too easy to sand it all off.
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Old 07-02-2018, 10:12 AM   #14
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48 hrs to sand and topcoat tho right? Can't.


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Old 07-02-2018, 08:41 PM   #15
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Interesting. Is pro block supposed to be a bonding primer as well?

I brushed a coat of Stix on one of the doors. No bleed. Brushed one coat of finish and will see if there is bleed in the morning.


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Old 07-02-2018, 10:54 PM   #16
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I wouldn’t use bm fresh start 217 if you paid for it! Who has that kind of time for it to harden, it takes days and days not 48hrs. SW SHELLAC primer (not synthetic) is my vote, re coat in 45 mins and doesn’t smell awful like oil base.
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Old 07-02-2018, 11:01 PM   #17
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Interesting. Is pro block supposed to be a bonding primer as well?
Can't get to the TDS for some reason but it's an economical quick dry interior oil primer. Not sure if it is a bonding primer specifically but my guess is no. More of an all purpose product that sands well.
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Old 07-02-2018, 11:05 PM   #18
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I wouldn’t use bm fresh start 217 if you paid for it! Who has that kind of time for it to harden, it takes days and days not 48hrs. SW SHELLAC primer (not synthetic) is my vote, re coat in 45 mins and doesn’t smell awful like oil base.

not as fast as shellac but 12-24 hours is typical. you got something wrong if taking days to sand
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Old 07-02-2018, 11:16 PM   #19
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I wouldn’t use bm fresh start 217 if you paid for it! Who has that kind of time for it to harden, it takes days and days not 48hrs. SW SHELLAC primer (not synthetic) is my vote, re coat in 45 mins and doesn’t smell awful like oil base.
BM 217 - Benjamin Moore Enamel Underbody Primer. One of the greatest and most renowned products ever to fill a painters' pail when trimming out bare wood on new construction back in the day before pre-primed crap was everywhere.

2 coats BM Enamel Underbody. 2 coats Satin Impervo, or better yet Dulamel and on to the next house.
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Old 07-03-2018, 08:16 AM   #20
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I put 217 on 1 side of and interior door 3 weeks ago with a brush and it was applied conservatively. This was on a Friday, and on Monday it was so soft when I went to sand that the sandpaper or my fingernail or anything else would cause it to bunch up into little rolled up globs. Not the fine dust that would sand smooth by any stretch of the imagination. Thankfully I kept the can clean, and the paint store refunded my $51 and put me ion to shellac primer which worked amazingly.. I will say that here in EASTERN NC humidity is around 98% and I suspect that has something to do with my situation and the longer than normal dry time. So I ask what makes BM 217 so good in your opinion and what makes it worth $51?
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