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Old 02-02-2018, 10:07 AM   #1
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Hello All, It has been awhile since I have posted anything, not much time or to share lately. Plus had to reset my account, I cannot recall passwords or how I set up the old account. Getting old sucks

Question for all. As I am preparing an educational FYI deal for my clients I am trying to find common terms used by us that have changed over time, and be able to define them. I am getting a lot of confusion on terms lately.
For example:

Enamel:
Epoxy:
Acrylic:
0 VOC: (totally loaded term)
High Performance coatings:
Etc...


I am sure that there are many more if this takes off I am sure I will get more, but lets start with these.

The hope is to be able to develop a working definition for my confused architects, designers, and GC. If we are all on the same page then these projects move much better.
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Old 02-02-2018, 10:16 AM   #2
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Get in touch with our admin Cricket to access your old account. I'll tag her so that she sees this post. @Cricket
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Old 02-02-2018, 11:36 AM   #3
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Those are some tough terms to nail down for sure. Enamels are usually hard, glossy finishes, either oil, latex, or waterborne. I'm sure there's more chemistry involved than that generic description. Epoxy is something that generally has a catalyst to make it work, thus, most are 2 parts, although one-part epoxies do exist. 0 VOC is quite the misnomer as very few, if any, paints are truly without volatile solvents that find their way into the atmosphere. 0 VOC just means the paint falls under the gov't standard for being "volatile."

This is where we need the expertise of @PACman.
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Old 02-02-2018, 12:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madochio2 View Post
Hello All, It has been awhile since I have posted anything, not much time or to share lately. Plus had to reset my account, I cannot recall passwords or how I set up the old account. Getting old sucks

Question for all. As I am preparing an educational FYI deal for my clients I am trying to find common terms used by us that have changed over time, and be able to define them. I am getting a lot of confusion on terms lately.
For example:

Enamel:
Epoxy:
Acrylic:
0 VOC: (totally loaded term)
High Performance coatings:
Etc...


I am sure that there are many more if this takes off I am sure I will get more, but lets start with these.

The hope is to be able to develop a working definition for my confused architects, designers, and GC. If we are all on the same page then these projects move much better.
enamel-current usage, a marketing term to denote a paint that is supposedly harder and more durable than a "regular" non-enamel paint.

epoxy-traditional usage, a coating that is comprised of two or three separate components that must be mixed together before use. Currently is also used to denote a coating that has those two or more components mixed together in a ready to use state. (more marketing)

acrylic-in architectural paints is a type of resin which is water reducible. Most common type of paint.

0 voc- a term used to denote a coating which complies with EPA regulations for use of the term "0 voc". (whether this is really chemically or physically possible is still under debate)

High Performance coatings-used to denote a coating that is typically sold as an industrial use product. Is also used as a marketing term to denote a product of superior durability to a normal (non-high performance) coating.
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Old 02-02-2018, 12:29 PM   #5
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Pac,
I agree that most of the term are marketing. Pending on who is serving the kool-aid on some of these.

This was the request i got a few weeks back which got me thinking.
something on these line i cannot recall perfectly want was said

"We need an Acrylic Enamel epoxy like coating that is 0 VOC and High Performance is a must"

All i can say is that thank Moses that they did not want paint in primer with it.
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Old 02-02-2018, 01:01 PM   #6
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Sounds to me like they want a durable, non stinky, non oil paint from a recognized manufacturer (probably not from a box store, but who knows).

My understanding is that something either is or is not an epoxy. "Epoxy like" to me like when people say stuff like "holds up like an epoxy" because epoxies are generally pretty durable.

My two cents. Or less.
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Old 02-02-2018, 01:31 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by madochio2 View Post
Pac,
I agree that most of the term are marketing. Pending on who is serving the kool-aid on some of these.

This was the request i got a few weeks back which got me thinking.
something on these line i cannot recall perfectly want was said

"We need an Acrylic Enamel epoxy like coating that is 0 VOC and High Performance is a must"

All i can say is that thank Moses that they did not want paint in primer with it.
One of the things us paint store people learn is to dig a little deeper and find out specifically what the customer's expectations are in a paint. A lot of it when people ask for paints like you describe is a reaction to some crappy paint they have used in the past. What they are really saying is they want a paint that is washable, won't burnish or mark easily as soon as someone touches it, won't fade, won't get chalky or feel chalky a week after application, won't peel off after a months cure, doesn't smell like cat pee, etc. The best way they have to describe their needs is to use terminology they have gleaned from paint company mass marketing. Unless it is a situation that requires a true industrial paint i would use a premium product such as California Ultra, P&L Accolade, Ben Moore Aura, and the like. (jeeze even SW durations or Emerald!) Stay away from Behr and for the most part Valspar and the lower SW grades. (and the lower Cali,P&L,and Ben Moore grades! Just trying to be politically correct here!)
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Old 02-02-2018, 01:32 PM   #8
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Sounds to me like they want a durable, non stinky, non oil paint from a recognized manufacturer (probably not from a box store, but who knows).

My understanding is that something either is or is not an epoxy. "Epoxy like" to me like when people say stuff like "holds up like an epoxy" because epoxies are generally pretty durable.

My two cents. Or less.
The term "single component" epoxy drives me up a wall! It isn't a true epoxy! If it was it would harden in the can!
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Old 02-02-2018, 07:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madochio2 View Post
Pac,
I agree that most of the term are marketing. Pending on who is serving the kool-aid on some of these.

This was the request i got a few weeks back which got me thinking.
something on these line i cannot recall perfectly want was said

"We need an Acrylic Enamel epoxy like coating that is 0 VOC and High Performance is a must"

All i can say is that thank Moses that they did not want paint in primer with it.

I'd try to sell them Durapoxy, from Kelly Moore. Its neither a true epoxy, nor 0 voc, but it is epoxy-like, extremely durable, very low VOC's. Its the closest product you're gonna find. Its also very easy to work with as well. It applies and acts just like a regular latex, but gets rock hard really fast, and looks better than most regular latex. Very reasonably priced as well. I get it for $46 a gallon. Thats cheap for a paint I would feel comfortable putting on cabinets.

The name alone, is enough to sell it to most clients.

Heres an MSDS: https://kellymoore.com/docs/default-...S.pdf?sfvrsn=6

Last edited by Woodco; 02-02-2018 at 07:17 PM..
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Old 02-02-2018, 11:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madochio2 View Post
Pac,
I agree that most of the term are marketing. Pending on who is serving the kool-aid on some of these.

This was the request i got a few weeks back which got me thinking.
something on these line i cannot recall perfectly want was said

"We need an Acrylic Enamel epoxy like coating that is 0 VOC and High Performance is a must"

All i can say is that thank Moses that they did not want paint in primer with it.
This is the best laugh I've had in months!
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Old 02-03-2018, 08:38 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madochio2 View Post
Hello All, It has been awhile since I have posted anything, not much time or to share lately. Plus had to reset my account, I cannot recall passwords or how I set up the old account. Getting old sucks

Question for all. As I am preparing an educational FYI deal for my clients I am trying to find common terms used by us that have changed over time, and be able to define them. I am getting a lot of confusion on terms lately.
For example:

Enamel:
Epoxy:
Acrylic:
0 VOC: (totally loaded term)
High Performance coatings:
Etc...


I am sure that there are many more if this takes off I am sure I will get more, but lets start with these.

The hope is to be able to develop a working definition for my confused architects, designers, and GC. If we are all on the same page then these projects move much better.
Enamels originally referred to the grind or method of shearing and grinding pigments to a smooth consistency. It was originally associated with gloss and semi gloss finishes. Paint companies adopted the term to market all finishes as enamels in an effort to connote quality.

Epoxy as defined are two component products that are chemically cured usually by an A and B mixed together to cause a chemical reaction to dry and cure the Paint film as opposed to solvent evaporation and coalescence in water based Coatings and solvent evaporation and oxidation or absorption of oxygen in alkyds or single Component products.

Acrylics are a generic term for resins in both water based and urethane based Coatings. (Aliphatic Acrlic Urethane). There are many types and quality levels as a raw material of acrylics. Acrylicís are marketed as being superior in quality but in reality acrylic resins range in quality from mediocre to vey High quality. It all depends on the raw material supplier, raw material cost, and what the paint is marketed to do determines the quality level of the acrylic.

0 VOC suggests a coating does not contain any compounds that are deemed by the Ozone Transport Commision to be harmful to the ozone. 0 VOC must comply with the law regarding the legality of the cocktail of ingredients that make up the paint and colorant. Consumers associate 0 VOC with no odor and paints are marketed that way. Ammonia is a compliant ingredient and is used extensively in paints to stabilize acrylic resin.

High performance Coatings are generally Coatings that require specialty application equipment specs and tight standards for what the system is required to do. Polyurea, polyaspartics, polyamides, amines, powders, vinyls, zincís, aliphatics, etc

Hopefully Iíve clarified this accurately and thereís not too much marketing in my explanations!
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