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Old 03-09-2014, 11:06 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by daArch View Post
The Auto body repair shop owner I did an estimate for on Friday finally realized how to balance the need to give his work his best, have a family life, and not encounter total burn out.

He take Fridays off.

When we are young, we have the energy and even the drive to put our all into the business, but believe me, when you reach the mid to late 50's it catches up with you, and it ain't pretty.

Balance your work load so you have time to unwind. Constant stress is detrimental. Most of us never consider it as stress, it's just building a business. We find out soon enough what this long term strain does.

Those who are employed have a work day that ends when the whistle blows. Business owners, either solo or boss of others, have plenty of unfinished business after the brush is put down and the whites come off.

If you feel compelled to give the customer eight full hours at the wall, then schedule a day off each week to take care of the other necessary tasks needed to keep the business going.

Remember, we solos spend approx 1/3 of our work related time NOT at the wall, doing paper work, estimating jobs, gathering supplies, maintaining tools, and all the other "invisible" tasks needed to run a business.

Allow for that time. PLEASE.
I'd just as soon hire a company that has the resources to leave a warm body at the job site while the CEO takes care of business, golfs, or whatever the heck they want to do, even if it means paying more for the service. I don't care about the personal experience. Especially, when it concerns a paint job. Wall covering, on the other hand, is more specialized, and I would understand if that service was provided by a solo self employed operator.

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Old 03-09-2014, 11:16 PM   #242
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I'd just as soon hire a company that has the resources to leave a warm body at the job site while the CEO takes care of business, golfs, or whatever the heck they want to do, even if it means paying more for the service. I don't care about the personal experience. Especially, when it concerns a paint job. Wall covering, on the other hand, is more specialized, and I would understand if that service was provided by a solo self employed operator.
John,

Through my short career, I have realized their are many types of HO's.

Some want a crew of experienced & talented technicians to get in and out in the most expedient manner. Others actually enjoy the virtual live-in carpenter/painter/paperhanger that moves methodically from one room to the next - he/she becomes part of the extended family.

And there are folks in between.

I've worked for all of them and I fault none of them. All I can do is adapt to their preferences.

There is room for all of us to make money on this planet in this profession.






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Old 03-09-2014, 11:18 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by CApainter View Post
I'd just as soon hire a company that has the resources to leave a warm body at the job site while the CEO takes care of business, golfs, or whatever the heck they want to do, even if it means paying more for the service. I don't care about the personal experience. Especially, when it concerns a paint job. Wall covering, on the other hand, is more specialized, and I would understand if that service was provided by a solo self employed operator.
That's twice you've mentioned golf on this subject. I love my golf, but I would never use that as a reason to neglect getting the job done in a timely manner.

Unless it was a fund-raiser for a good cause.

Or a preplanned golf trip with my buddies.

Or an old friend comes to town>

Or...............well, never mind.
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Old 03-09-2014, 11:26 PM   #244
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or it's been a long winter and the ice just melted off the third green



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Old 03-09-2014, 11:28 PM   #245
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leisure time requirements expected by all "business owners"

Central Florida is full of "one man companies" and i have no problem with it but i get a lot of work because i have a crew to knock it out

time is money both to me & my clients ... many need it done in a timely manner. If they hire a one man crew to lay tile, install crown, remodel kitchen and paint it could easily turn a 30 day job into 6 months ... something many ho don't have.

Hiring a company with a full time crew is worth the money in time alone. Now don't get me wrong there are plenty of work for one man companies so i think we're talking about two different markets

It's only fair to let the ho know ...

BTW CA, my leisure time is after work, as a business owner i have a responsibility to provide my painters a full time job with full time pay to feed their families ... just because i work 60+ hours a week to grow my company doesn't mean they have to.
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Old 03-09-2014, 11:41 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daArch
John, Through my short career, I have realized their are many types of HO's. Some want a crew of experienced & talented technicians to get in and out in the most expedient manner. Others actually enjoy the virtual live-in carpenter/painter/paperhanger that moves methodically from one room to the next - he/she becomes part of the extended family. And there are folks in between. I've worked for all of them and I fault none of them. All I can do is adapt to their preferences. There is room for all of us to make money on this planet in this profession.
G'day Bill

My clients are 100% like that and now I have my mattress setup I might start sleep overs

Waiting for all the negative replies How un professional to sleep with the client : )
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Old 03-09-2014, 11:52 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by benthepainter View Post
G'day Bill

My clients are 100% like that and now I have my mattress setup I might start sleep overs

Waiting for all the negative replies How un professional to sleep with the client : )

I don't know about sleeping with the client, but I see you sleep with all your fans



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Old 03-09-2014, 11:57 PM   #248
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I don't know about sleeping with the client, but I see you sleep with all your fans
With what we've seen of Ben's diet, the importance of the fans cannot be underestimated.
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:12 AM   #249
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My clients are 100% like that and now I have my mattress setup I might start sleep overs

Waiting for all the negative replies How un professional to sleep with the client : )


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Old 03-10-2014, 12:22 AM   #250
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My clients are 100% like that and now I have my mattress setup I might start sleep overs Waiting for all the negative replies How un professional to sleep with the client : )
What's the first Pic from lol
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:24 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by CApainter View Post
Well since Sean stoked the fires, I might as well warm my hands up.

-This thread began with a solo self employed poster describing his customer's concern about him leaving early from the job site, and asked for feed back in regards to providing a homeowner a full day's worth of service (somewhere between 5-8 hrs) on the job site.

-My argument was that a consumer has every right to expect a full day's worth of work from the contractor they've hired. Particularly painting. It is also not the homeowner's obligation to accommodate a self employed contractor's entrepreneurial free will to come and go as they please, without demonstrating some concern about the expedient completion of their project. Especially, when the solo self employed contractor advertises, and competes for his service among others in his industry, who actually run their businesses in a manner that allows them the free will to come and go as they please while not compromising the productivity of their customers project.

-I am really pro businessman, and I understand start ups don't necessarily have the resources to put in a full days worth of work given the estimating, golfing, and book work, without compromising productivity at the job site. However, I think this should be brought to the attention of the consumer immediately. Especially, when the homeowner has likely hired a solo self employed painter based on the level of a professional looking web site, or presentation, only to discover they've ended up with a good natured, but casual one man show, who randomly cuts out early due to personal obligations, and leisure time requirements expected by all "business owners".

-Bottom line is, its not fair for a homeowner to be subjected to the entrepreneurial cliches from a self employed and under resourced painter.
My gosh, I could have had an exciting night in Rome with a traveling beauty from Argentina before you were finished typing all that!

More power to you!

Have the customer help you help them to be happy! That's the ticket! We are on our way now!
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:47 AM   #252
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End of the day Seriously I don't see the Problem

Two different Painters both doing the same Job

One finishes the same amount of work in six hours which takes the other one 8hrs

I pack up and go home pick up my kids and then go home and make dinner for my Family : )

Do I owe anyone anything **** no I have reached my goals for the day : ) while the other guy it took 8hrs

It's like this day and age like at schools they don't like to say Winners or loosers

Some Painters are more Productive then others
: ) Don't Hate
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Old 03-10-2014, 01:00 AM   #253
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Ben,

I don't think there's any hate here, or even the hint of bad blood. People are just explaining their way of doing things. And apparently, even though we all have different styles, there seems to be one solution we all agree upon - COMMUNICATION with the HO.

And that's a good thing.

Considering the season, this thread has been very tame - a bit LENGTHY, but good thoughts have been presented in a respectful manner.



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Old 03-10-2014, 01:06 AM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daArch
Ben, I don't think there's any hate here, or even the hint of bad blood. People are just explaining their way of doing things. And apparently, even though we all have different styles, there seems to be one solution we all agree upon - COMMUNICATION with the HO. And that's a good thing. Considering the season, this thread has been very tame - a bit LENGTHY, but good thoughts have been presented in a respectful manner.
G'day Bill

I was trying to sound young lol isn't that what they say don't be a Hater lol
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Old 03-10-2014, 01:11 AM   #255
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G'day Bill

I was trying to sound young lol isn't that what they say don't be a Hater lol
I don't know. PWG is the one I hear say it most often, and he sure ain't young



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Old 03-10-2014, 01:20 AM   #256
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Well since Sean stoked the fires, I might as well warm my hands up.
That was my intent John. I see you have a strong work ethic while also in some ways you might be suffering from burnout. The latter is simply observational since I suffer from a similar infliction and was not meant to be disrespectful by any means.

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not putting in a solid 8hr days on the wall and 5-6 hour days are two different things. When you are doing work for a customer, you owe it to them to make the inconvenience minimal.
I agree but going by the op this was simply a failure of communication.

If a business owner needs time for family and fun times, he/she can do that in-between jobs. When a job is complete, take two / three days off before starting a new project. Why not be able to conduct those types of things during normal business hrs? Why should the op or any business owner have to deal with supplies and paper work off hrs?

When you run your own business, it is a 24 hours a day job. As a generalized statement, all of the unseen hours should not take away from the timely completion of the customers job. Estimates, paperwork etc, should be done in the evenings.
Yes from a small business perspective a fair amount will be done off hrs but the bulk should be part of a normal day. I guess it depends on the type of business platform they are working on along with their mission statement, which truthfully so many small painting business have probably never performed.

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I love working 7 days a week...I would never want to have to work 7 days a week
lmao the enigma. Me personally I hate working 7 days a week and and only do it when I feel it is needed. If I was a bit more successful and a bit smarter I would not have to be on the wall at all.

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As a homeowner, a solo self employed painter would have to be exceptional and reasonably priced before I agreed to such a liberal schedule. I really don't believe there's that large of a gap in exceptionability from one painter to the next for me to agree to such terms and conditions. I'll just say "Next".



Double standards do apply when someone's paying for a service. Even the pot smoking homeowner probably wouldn't want a pot smoking painter.
Yes John it is always a two way street and some HO's want to make sure you are not making more than they are but the reality is that those HO's are not seeing/counting all the other hrs that went into the project such as scheduling, supply runs, the proposal, the possible color samples, and a few other things that go with the territory. In truth on the wall I do 7-8+ on the wall and am wanting to get it down to 2hrs while I focus on sales and what not but atm I very deep in the bucket. Obviously I will have to make changes because with my work/school schedule it is becoming very tiresome and feel some changes will be needed.

Also the same could be said for some employees thinking that the business owner has it made being able to answer calls and make unexpected appointments during the day to keep the workforce happy. It all comes down to finding the right platform that works for the business platform. I mean only a portion of this site are working guys 52 weeks much less medical/dental/solid benefits for their employees much less themselves. Many of these so called entrepreneurial dreams are not able to fit the bill as reliable 52 weeks a year there is a seasonal aspect that goes along with this trade when you are living in colder climates than sunny CA.

Also just to be clear I have never been asked or confronted on days when I cut out early for whatever reason. The schedule is all that matter to most. Keep your word and as long as they are not adding extras to the job I usually can meet my time frame. The time frame is what is most important because like yourself and myself I want as little disruption to them as possible.
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:00 AM   #257
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I feel I'm more productive on an organized, focused 6-7 hour day than I am on an 8-12. Once fatigue sets in, I get scatterbrained, clumsy, and pay less attention to detail. Everyone's different as far as energy levels go.
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:02 AM   #258
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Good points Sean.

Unlike you, the OP made no indication that he's actually growing a painting business, but rather modeling his service and market to allow for a more liberal schedule for himself. What sparked the debate, was his irritation with a homeowner that had concerns about his liberal schedule. As if all homeowners have an obligation to tolerate the self employed worker's personal needs. After all, the OP stated that the reason he started his own solo paint business was to set his own hours and have the freedom to do what he wants.

Which begs another question:

Do you start a business to provide a service for others, or for yourself? And if you say both, an honest days worth of work, and the customers interests would have to be met as part of that reason, along with scheduling plenty of play time for yourself.
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:06 AM   #259
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I feel I'm more productive on an organized, focused 6-7 hour day than I am on an 8-12. Once fatigue sets in, I get scatterbrained, clumsy, and pay less attention to detail. Everyone's different as far as energy levels go.
BINGO !

Although, if you try nibbling something healthy after 5 - 6 hours, you MIGHT feel less fatigued. Needing to control my blood sugar (pre-diabetes) has shown me the importance of keeping it more even with less spikes and valleys.



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Old 03-10-2014, 12:28 PM   #260
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I admire people who are self employed. It takes a lot of sacrifice, responsibility, and long hours, that unfortunately, can have a less than desirable impact on family and life style needs. These are some of the main reasons I never became self employed. I like a set schedule provided by a good employer. And even though my day is nine hours long, I never really "work" to an extreme for more then six actual hours in the day. I've learned to pace myself in that day, but still make a commitment to my employer. That's the contract we have with each other. And at the end of the day, literally, I leave my work at work.
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