estimating 101 - Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum > Painting Forum > General Painting Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-10-2011, 04:57 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 853
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 147
Thanked 163 Times in 129 Posts
View JoseyWales's Photo Album My Photos
Default estimating 101

I need to get more professional at estimating jobs.For 14+ years I just guess-timate the price of a job by using prior experince as a guide only...I estimate how long it should take,estimate how much paint, multiply the number of hours by say $55/hr and then add gas money and other expenses.

I need a better system!


Reading this forum shows me how unprofessional I really am by the standards of the more successful guys.


I dropped by for an estimate today [for an exterior] and here's what I did:

-counted the windows and estimated that each coat [per window]will take 15-20 minutes.

-Prep for each window is 5 minutes

-higher windows 30 minutes each including prep.

-wood exterior doors [20 min/side.]

-paint spreads at 350 sq ft/gallon

Question:

I want to earn $55/hr and the paint cost is $35/gallon inc tax.

Do you just plug these numbers into an excel spread sheet?


How do you guys price stucco?


Measure the rough square footage of each side of the house minus the windows?....Obviously pressure washing [cleaning] a house is about a 2-3 hour job. [3x $55/hr] + soap

In the past I just walk it off..[each stride is 3 feet] I'm a golfer so I'm fairly accurate with that method...Obviously the height is more challenging so I just guess how tall the building is.

-spraying stucco you probably get 250 sq ft/gallon.

I know how to estimate, but I'm looking for a faster more accurate method....The bigger jobs are really intimidating for me to estimate,but I usually get through it.

I suppose for interior, you guys just break it down into little pieces like doors,windows,doors,baseboards,closets.ceiling sq footage,,wall sq footage, etc...Correct?

I know there is a lot of variability including style of doors and windows...

Do you guys break the windows down to similar sizes? I count a picture window as 3 windows.

Has anyone tried this software:

http://www.cprsoft.com/PCDemo01.htm

JoseyWales is offline   Reply With Quote

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. PaintTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-10-2011, 05:17 PM   #2
PinheadsUnite
 
daArch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: almost there
Posts: 30,724
Rewards Points: 1,696
Thanks: 13,929
Thanked 17,336 Times in 10,141 Posts
View daArch's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Josey,

First, what do I know, I'm an old hack 'n' fraud.

But it looks like you are essentially on the right track. I use excel that I have customized to take into account how long it takes me to do certain tasks, like you have.

I count each item and/or sq ft and plug 'em in. For each item I have a "fudge factor" or shall we call it a difficulty factor.

So basically, using your numbers, my spread sheet would take 20 windows. Multiply that by 5 minutes prep. It would also multiply the 20 windows by 20 minutes to apply each coat. Those numbers would then be added, so for two coats and 20 windows, my formulas would indicate 900 minutes for the windows. If I wanted $55/hour, that 900 minutes would be converted to hours (15) and multiplied by 55 for $825.

And then is set up charges, clean up time, coffee breaks, etc etc.

It's all very rudimentary. However, organizing the spread sheet and writing the formulas with the correct cell references is the bugaboo.

AND, I still keep track of my performance times and tweak my formulas regulary



__________________
"Glazed Donuts Are the Building Blocks of the Universe"

"Are we having fun yet"
daArch is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to daArch For This Useful Post:
JoseyWales (02-10-2011)
Old 02-10-2011, 05:22 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 853
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 147
Thanked 163 Times in 129 Posts
View JoseyWales's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I can see how the estimates would be quicker,more enjoyable to do and obviously more accurate and repeatable.
JoseyWales is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-10-2011, 06:30 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 60
Rewards Points: 75
Thanks: 33
Thanked 37 Times in 21 Posts
View vandy's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Josey,
so basically you are estimating work based upon YOUR production rates, YOUR material costs, and YOUR expenses.

sounds good to me.
vandy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2011, 07:00 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
nEighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: tWilGhtZonE
Posts: 5,447
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 3,948
Thanked 884 Times in 640 Posts
View nEighter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

buy markup and profit from Mike Stone: http://www.markupandprofit.com/contr...nd-profit.html

be one of the best books you will ever read for business. Opt for the 6 hr seminar DVD. W E L L worth the money.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
nEighter is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to nEighter For This Useful Post:
JoseyWales (02-10-2011)
Old 02-10-2011, 07:06 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 853
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 147
Thanked 163 Times in 129 Posts
View JoseyWales's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nEighter View Post
buy markup and profit from Mike Stone: http://www.markupandprofit.com/contr...nd-profit.html

be one of the best books you will ever read for business. Opt for the 6 hr seminar DVD. W E L L worth the money.
Is it a general business book or painting specific?
JoseyWales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2011, 07:22 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
nEighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: tWilGhtZonE
Posts: 5,447
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 3,948
Thanked 884 Times in 640 Posts
View nEighter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

it is for contractors. No matter if you are HVAC or Painting. It is how to run, use the correct margin to ensure your business makes profit, and everyone gets paid. I cannot stress enough about getting this book. Just do it, and maybe we can get some biz talk , surrounding it, going.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
nEighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2011, 07:23 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
nEighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: tWilGhtZonE
Posts: 5,447
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 3,948
Thanked 884 Times in 640 Posts
View nEighter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

btw, I am going to contact him about his proposal writing software. There are a ton of companies that offer services. ELMS is one of them.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
nEighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2011, 07:31 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 853
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 147
Thanked 163 Times in 129 Posts
View JoseyWales's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nEighter View Post
btw, I am going to contact him about his proposal writing software. There are a ton of companies that offer services. ELMS is one of them.
Did you check out the software above?
JoseyWales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2011, 07:34 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
nEighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: tWilGhtZonE
Posts: 5,447
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 3,948
Thanked 884 Times in 640 Posts
View nEighter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

no. first time I have seen it. I like Stone's "system"?/way of thinking. Interested to see what his software is. I am watching a video of it right now. Later tonight I will check that one out JW.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
nEighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2011, 07:40 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 853
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 147
Thanked 163 Times in 129 Posts
View JoseyWales's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nEighter View Post
no. first time I have seen it. I like Stone's "system"?/way of thinking. Interested to see what his software is. I am watching a video of it right now. Later tonight I will check that one out JW.
Do you have Brian's "out of the bucket" too?

Which program is better?
JoseyWales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2011, 07:46 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
nEighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: tWilGhtZonE
Posts: 5,447
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 3,948
Thanked 884 Times in 640 Posts
View nEighter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

nope, don't have Brian's. I was actually wondering if Brian came up with it after possibly researching Mike's work. Brian's is strickly painting (I AM MAKING A HUGE LEAP OF FAITH ON THAT COMMENT) where as Mike's is a general contracting piece. BUT one thing both say is to stop doing to physical work, get a crew and spend your time (50% running company, 50% advertising).

I will post up Mike Stone's 10 Cardinal Rules:

1.) you shall return ALL phone calls the same day.

2.) you shall keep ALL appointments, and on time.

3.) you shall present yourself to your customers and the public in a professional manner at all times.

4.) you shall keep your ego in your pocket.

5.) you shall interview the customer to see if they qualify to buy from you, not if you qualifiy to sell to them.

6.) you shall get written quotes on all items that exceed $300.00 on your estimate.

7.) you shall determine your correct markup and use it without fail.

8.) you shall honor your overhead budget AT ALL TIMES, and spend not otherwise.

9.) you shall continue your education on a daily basis.

10.) you shall take a fixed salary from your business each month.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
nEighter is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to nEighter For This Useful Post:
JoseyWales (02-10-2011)
Old 02-10-2011, 07:57 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 853
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 147
Thanked 163 Times in 129 Posts
View JoseyWales's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Agree about #1.

I just lost a job because I didn't do #1.She wanted to do the work in 3 weeks so I slacked off.Then my computer broke down so i couldn't email the estimate.Four days later I called her and left a message to call me back and she never returned my call!...Can't blame her for that.She was a realy hotty too!
JoseyWales is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JoseyWales For This Useful Post:
nEighter (02-10-2011)
Old 02-10-2011, 09:07 PM   #14
Painter
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 59
Rewards Points: 75
Thanks: 1
Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
View MattRoefer's Photo Album My Photos
Default

I think your estimate process is a good one. Be careful of doing a lot of work on estimates, that don't pay off. I probably spend too much time writing up estimates, but the good thing is that I get most of my estimates I write. The bad thing is when you spend a lot of time writing it up and the people go with the cheaper guy who has no idea what they are doing. I am big on paying yourself out of the money you make. You need to give yourself a reward/salary after it's all said and done. But what you have written at the top looks great, you're on the right track. Get a system and constantly evaluate it. Take 5 minutes at the begining of every day and at the end to see if you accomplished what you wanted to.
__________________
Matt Roefer Professional Painting
Geniune. Superior. Excellent.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- New and Improved Website!!!
MattRoefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2011, 10:19 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
ROOMINADAY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 1,716
Rewards Points: 1,000
Thanks: 632
Thanked 952 Times in 628 Posts
View ROOMINADAY's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Joseywales

I downloaded that trial a few years ago. I didn't feel it was worth buying but it wasn't all that bad. Their rates and costs needed changed. I did buy Brians Out of The Bucket and I already estimated similar. I measure everything, and inspect as best as I can for prep work, then I break each part down

Ceilings - Sq Ft x production rate x $$ rate + paint = Sell price
Walls, windows doors, same as above etc

Your system is similar.

I use an excel spread sheet that I enter the room size and coats etc, and I have all the math programed, production rates, hourly rate, paint, etc and it all adds up.


I just ordered Mark-up and Profit!
ROOMINADAY is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ROOMINADAY For This Useful Post:
Different Strokes (02-10-2011)
Old 02-10-2011, 10:50 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
One Coat Coverage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lakewood, Ohio
Posts: 1,369
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 285
Thanked 460 Times in 311 Posts
View One Coat Coverage's Photo Album My Photos
Default

There is no magical "one size fits all" way to estimate paint jobs. There is just to many variables.
One Coat Coverage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2011, 11:37 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
nEighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: tWilGhtZonE
Posts: 5,447
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 3,948
Thanked 884 Times in 640 Posts
View nEighter's Photo Album My Photos
Default

stone's method to figure out price is different.
would you like me to show you what he does? I don't want to jack your thread.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
nEighter is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to nEighter For This Useful Post:
JoseyWales (02-11-2011)
Reply

Tags
None

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
help on estimating! ncphi26 General Painting Discussion 31 12-09-2009 09:06 AM
estimating vermontpainter General Painting Discussion 19 10-06-2009 01:38 PM
Estimating stockcon1 General Painting Discussion 23 07-01-2008 12:13 AM
Estimating by sq. ft. ogre General Painting Discussion 44 06-16-2008 07:52 AM
estimating dryroller Commercial and Industrial Painting 14 02-14-2008 01:17 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | ElectricianTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com