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Old 06-02-2019, 12:25 AM   #1
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Default exterior vinyl windows

I'm painting the exterior of some vinyl window jambs, and the customer wants them to be a flat black (I have warned her about going black she is aware of the potential warping of the window jambs) I am using aerosol cans since its the quickest easiest way to paint them, I have been using a self-etching automotive primer on them since I wasn't to sure what would stick well enough to the vinyl window jabs and give it a flat finish, it seems to be working well but The store I got it from is closed for the weekend and I need more to finish by Monday I was wondering if there is another product as good or even better suited for this job that I could use. I am also a little concerned that the primer might not have enough UV protection I'm wondering if it will hold up to the sun. The product im using is "Dominion Sure Seal One step Automotive Self Etch Primer" Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated.
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:13 AM   #2
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Good luck with that! They will be all distorted in less than a month of hot summer sun..
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Old 06-02-2019, 12:29 PM   #3
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I wouldn't agree that applying an aerosol primer as an exterior finish coat, is a best practice. And since it isn't a polyurethane or acrylic resin, it is highly likely that UV rays will break the film down sooner than later based on environmental conditions and exposure.

Pella windows voids all warranties if their vinyl windows are painted and therefore, does not recommend painting them.

However, since the owner is completely aware of the above limitations and has agreed to move forward with the coating system suggested, it is considered experimental and subject to failure without recourse.
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Old 06-02-2019, 01:36 PM   #4
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I wouldn't go near that job with a 100' pole. Interesting that this came up today as I just posted about a guy a couple of years ago with almost exactly the same question. The population of PT did what they could to convince him not to go ahead with this.
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Old 06-02-2019, 01:46 PM   #5
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can u send me a link to that post
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Old 06-02-2019, 01:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brilliant_Painting View Post
can u send me a link to that post
It was a couple of years ago, so it could be like finding a needle in the proverbial hay stack. As I remember, I think he (thankfully) declined the job at the end of the day. It wasn't exactly a monumental thread, basically everyone just telling him to run away from doing it.


It's just weird because just yesterday it popped into my head and I mentioned it, and here we are again. Anyhoo, I hope you don't get caught up in this. It could turn into a massive mess.
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Old 06-02-2019, 05:13 PM   #7
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I mean, it's really tempting to paint vinyl windows because the white can look awful in a new color scheme. And the coating system the OP offers up seems sound in terms of adhesion. After all, the primer's vehicle is made up of Methyl Ethyl Ketone, among other solvents. And MEK is actually used as a primer for cementing PVC piping.

But it is impossible to validate this experimental system when the manufacturers of vinyl windows strongly recommends not painting them. And even if a dozen painters on a public forum were to agree that you could paint them, it still is not considered a best practice let alone a standard practice.

But painting is one of those trades that lends itself to experimentation, given the lack of adherence to standard practices, albeit often acceptable outcomes.

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Old 06-02-2019, 11:56 PM   #8
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If the windows perform like vinyl siding, itís quite possible that painting them black could cause the windows to melt if theyíre exposed to direct sunlight for most of the day.

Iíd definitely include verbiage in your contract that your not liable for any damage painting those windows WILL cause and that painting the windows will likely voids the mfgís warranty. Make sure you get a signed and dated copy of this as well.

Iíd also recommend that she talks with the window mfg about painting her windows. She might not listen to you, but maybe they can set her straight.

You might also recommend that your client at least chooses a vinyl safe color from BM or SW.


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Old 06-03-2019, 07:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brilliant_Painting View Post
I'm painting the exterior of some vinyl window jambs, and the customer wants them to be a flat black (I have warned her about going black she is aware of the potential warping of the window jambs) I am using aerosol cans since its the quickest easiest way to paint them, I have been using a self-etching automotive primer on them since I wasn't to sure what would stick well enough to the vinyl window jabs and give it a flat finish, it seems to be working well but The store I got it from is closed for the weekend and I need more to finish by Monday I was wondering if there is another product as good or even better suited for this job that I could use. I am also a little concerned that the primer might not have enough UV protection I'm wondering if it will hold up to the sun. The product im using is "Dominion Sure Seal One step Automotive Self Etch Primer" Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated.
You mean you were just going to paint them with black primer and that's it. ? Depending on where the house is located, it's not garunteed that the vinyl will warp (but very possible).
However, the answer is yes that your primer will also most likely break down from UV rays.
All that aside, Krylon makes a great spray can that apparently is self priming sticks to plastics, yadayada..Not sure if it's rated for exterior though..?

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Old 06-03-2019, 11:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finishesbykevyn View Post
You mean you were just going to paint them with black primer and that's it. ? Depending on where the house is located, it's not garunteed that the vinyl will warp (but very possible).
However, the answer is yes that your primer will also most likely break down from UV rays.
All that aside, Krylon makes a great spray can that apparently is self priming sticks to plastics, yadayada..Not sure if it's rated for exterior though..?
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Graffiti artist use it on exterior work, constantly!
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Old 06-04-2019, 05:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jennifertemple View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by finishesbykevyn View Post
You mean you were just going to paint them with black primer and that's it. ? Depending on where the house is located, it's not garunteed that the vinyl will warp (but very possible).
However, the answer is yes that your primer will also most likely break down from UV rays.
All that aside, Krylon makes a great spray can that apparently is self priming sticks to plastics, yadayada..Not sure if it's rated for exterior though..?
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I sprayed my Avalanche with the Krylon. Held up ok for a year until I sold it.
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Old 06-06-2019, 11:29 AM   #12
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Hereís something that many donít know, and I didnít know it either until it happened to me..twice!

When painting a window sash black or a color with a low light reflectance value, whether is be vinyl, wood, or metal, you run the risk of the glass developing thermal stress fractures. Quite often the water-jet cutting of annealed glass results in micro-edge defects during the fabrication process which typically wouldnít result in the glass fracturing in itself. Itís only when a temperature differential exists across the glass panel, the edges of the glass where meeting the dark painted sash get hotter than in the center resulting in fracturing, the fractures initiating at the edge defect. This happened on two of my projects with multiple glass panels, including the one Iím currently on, having painted the exterior wood sash a dark charcoal color with an LRV of 12%, the glass perimeters getting hotter than in the center, resulting in fractures across the glass panel.
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Old 06-06-2019, 11:36 AM   #13
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If she insists, prime with InslX Stix.

Going with a semi-gloss or satin would be better than flat.

I don't think any warping will occur like siding which has a very large surface area and is not as rigid.
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Old 06-06-2019, 12:39 PM   #14
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So, do we think that vinyl safe colors will alleviate the risk or not? I am suspicious of the actual ability of leaving the black out of a formula to have a significant effect on the temperature of the surface. I plan on testing this soon though.

We also have a customer who put white windows in their condo but association rules require them to be either that dark, brown color of the original windows or to match the siding color (currently a medium dark green).
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Old 12-12-2019, 10:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemy Redux View Post
Hereís something that many donít know, and I didnít know it either until it happened to me..twice!

When painting a window sash black or a color with a low light reflectance value, whether is be vinyl, wood, or metal, you run the risk of the glass developing thermal stress fractures. Quite often the water-jet cutting of annealed glass results in micro-edge defects during the fabrication process which typically wouldnít result in the glass fracturing in itself. Itís only when a temperature differential exists across the glass panel, the edges of the glass where meeting the dark painted sash get hotter than in the center resulting in fracturing, the fractures initiating at the edge defect. This happened on two of my projects with multiple glass panels, including the one Iím currently on, having painted the exterior wood sash a dark charcoal color with an LRV of 12%, the glass perimeters getting hotter than in the center, resulting in fractures across the glass panel.
That certainly makes sense, but what about windows that are dark bronze or black from the manufacturer?
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Old 12-12-2019, 11:33 PM   #16
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My wife wants to put factory black vinyl windows in an apartment building we purchased. I'm dubious of that as well. Personally, I think it will fade and look like garbage sooner rather than later. My take: paint the trim and all black; live with the white vinyl windows.

For some reason, known only to advanced science people, flat black fades like a mofo.
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Old 12-13-2019, 12:52 AM   #17
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I say paint it black, black as night, don't want to see the sun no more.
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Old 12-13-2019, 01:19 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mug View Post
I sprayed my Avalanche with the Krylon. Held up ok for a year until I sold it.
Believe it or not, I had an F150 with trim almost as bad as that and I coated it with Penetrol...brought it right back to black. Lasts about 6-8 months. Penetrol does a great job on restoring and maintaining the black on auto plastics...much better than anything in the auto stores.
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Old 12-13-2019, 06:42 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A+HomeWork View Post
That certainly makes sense, but what about windows that are dark bronze or black from the manufacturer?
With dark colored manufactured units, the use of laser cut glass along with properly engineered thermal breaks, as well as using hardened or tempered glass would reduce the chances of it happening. One of my builder clients had to change out over $3 million in thermally fractured triple ply thermal panels sourced from Germany on a large residential home he built where the frames were dark factory finished steel. Those too were cut with water jets.

I’ve personally only experienced it on two homes, one of which resulted in $26K worth of glass being changed out. It was determined that the water jet cut glass had micro edge defects, and the thermal differential over the glass panel faces exceeded the tolerances for annealed glass. The dark paint color combined with poorly engineered thermal breaks was a contributing factor. The manufacturer has since switched to laser cutting. It rarely to never happens on less expensive common stock windows.

Most windows manufacturers have an LRV spec, and the spec should always be followed for this and other reasons.

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