Help With Estimate - Page 2 - Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum > Painting Forum > General Painting Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-17-2011, 07:18 PM   #21
RCP
Senior Member
 
RCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Southwestern Utah
Posts: 12,314
Rewards Points: 78
Thanks: 4,400
Thanked 4,803 Times in 3,011 Posts
View RCP's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonytwotime View Post
A few things, yes. I just came here to see how the pro's would handle it. By the square foot, by the hour, etc. Any ideas I could get, really. I charge 20 an hour for small jobs, because these are people I know, and see pretty regularly. They are old, and couldn't afford anything else.

On the flip side, I don't know the people that own this beach house. I wanted to estimate it like the veterans would. That's all.
Tony, pricing questions are usually frowned on here because of this very type of issue. What a professional would charge is not the same as what you would charge. Do you really have a business or are you "just doing this on the side"?

Quote:
You don't even know me. I have all the required permits, for the town I'm working in. I paint when I come across jobs.
This leads me to believe you are not a professional painter, which this forum is intended for. I'd suggest you spend some time reading through the archives here, especially in the business section.
__________________
Chris

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
RCP is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RCP For This Useful Post:
daArch (04-17-2011), NEPS.US (04-17-2011)

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. PaintTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-17-2011, 07:18 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
DanielMDollaPainting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Berks Co. PA.
Posts: 345
Rewards Points: 254
Thanks: 39
Thanked 86 Times in 67 Posts
View DanielMDollaPainting's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonytwotime View Post
Schmoe? You don't even know me. I have all the required permits, for the town I'm working in. I paint when I come across jobs. I just asked for some estimate help. C'mon. Is there really a need to be a douche bag about it?

Thanks. I was wondering what people charged per square foot. I might just do that instead.
You're not gonna get any help on here with pricing. 20$ an hr is a little low even for my area. My dad worked all through the 90's at 25 an hr and was completely legit. He paid taxes on every job and had insurance. He paid 500 or 600$ a month for years for a family health plan. I don't know how he did it. We always had what we needed but nothing exttravagant. There are some highend companies on here that have multiple crews and a lot of overhead and would probably call my dad or any one man show owner operater a lowballer. My dad had 5 employees when he was younger and paid workers comp on me when I worked for him. A lot of "businessmen" on here have large companies with estimators, salesmen, etc. and have skyhigh labor rates to go along with it. Guys talk about marking up paint 60%. I don't know how they do it when the paint is too damn expensive so as it is.I think my dad always had work because he delivered quality at an affordable market price. Everyone has to do what they do to provide for their family. The problem is the market is flooded with "new" tradesmen who lost jobs in factories etc. There are ads galore in my area on Craigslist from many quality respectable painters who just don't have the work. Nobody in America wants to see the labor rate go down but I think we are going to see more and more of it and it has little to do with "illegals". People are buying online instead of local and "always" want the lowest price without sacrifice of service.
__________________
"I'm not the painter, I'm only the painter's son"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DanielMDollaPainting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2011, 07:18 PM   #23
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 10
Rewards Points: 10
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
View tonytwotime's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Yes a Schmoe charges only $20 per hour. Or a lowballer, hack, ect. You choose.
Thanks for the advice. HUGE help. Really appreciate it........
tonytwotime is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-17-2011, 07:20 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 171
Rewards Points: 150
Thanks: 10
Thanked 24 Times in 20 Posts
View PaintWork's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shamrockbear View Post
Here is a point of reference all the franchises like five star painting charge appox. 2.15 a square foot
G
Didn't know he's painting the floor
PaintWork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2011, 07:22 PM   #25
"Member"
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New England
Posts: 10,719
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 5,401
Thanked 5,705 Times in 3,060 Posts
View NEPS.US's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonytwotime View Post
Thanks for the advice. HUGE help. Really appreciate it........
Advice: Tell the home owners to hire a professional painting contracting company.

Advice #2: You should go get a job from that professional painting contracting company.

Last edited by NEPS.US; 04-17-2011 at 07:30 PM..
NEPS.US is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2011, 07:22 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Paint and Hammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 3,378
Rewards Points: 2,002
Thanks: 1,853
Thanked 2,047 Times in 1,196 Posts
View Paint and Hammer's Photo Album My Photos
Default

You carrying proper insurance? (can you tell me what 'proper' insurance means?)

Actually Tony by golly you've gotten some solid advice here....lucky you its spring! Ask this middle of winter.....
__________________
Painting: The art of protecting flat surfaces from the weather and exposing them to the critic.
Ambrose Bierce
Paint and Hammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2011, 07:23 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 171
Rewards Points: 150
Thanks: 10
Thanked 24 Times in 20 Posts
View PaintWork's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCP View Post
Tony, pricing questions are usually frowned on here because of this very type of issue. What a professional would charge is not the same as what you would charge. Do you really have a business or are you "just doing this on the side"?



This leads me to believe you are not a professional painter, which this forum is intended for. I'd suggest you spend some time reading through the archives here, especially in the business section.

I know the feeling of wanting your question answered straight up, but I agree, search the archives. I love this site and spend lots of time on here educating myself. Read "So you wanna start a painting business" and other stickies here. There's already a lot of great information on here about pricing. Good luck!
PaintWork is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PaintWork For This Useful Post:
tonytwotime (04-17-2011)
Old 04-17-2011, 07:25 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Paint and Hammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 3,378
Rewards Points: 2,002
Thanks: 1,853
Thanked 2,047 Times in 1,196 Posts
View Paint and Hammer's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daArch View Post
Tony,

You say you like to receive $20/hr for your services (at this point I won't get into the ability of running a legit business charging that rate, but that's yours, the gov't, insurance co's, and your customers' issue)

Once you establish that you can run a legit business on that wage, you then need to figure your overhead expenses. These include insurance (you do carry liability and workers comp, right?), vehicle costs (I assume you are not working out of your sisters' Yugo ), depreciation of tools and equipment, your time running work related errands, costs for support services (cell, internet, etc), and all the other business related costs.

Once you have gathered all your overhead time and materials, then figure how much you have to add onto that $20/hour you strive to receive.

Now you have a more accurate hourly wage you must receive to keep your business afloat.

Next, go over your records and figure how long it takes you to prepare, prime, and paint the surfaces you will be working on. With a little effort you can break walls down to a price per sq ft, windows and doors to a per item price, and trim to a linear foot price.

Add all these item pricings up for the projected job, add in the cost of materials, and you should have a fairly accurate estimate.

Wow...should have stopped here. DaArch must have found some remnants at the bottom of those land fill bottles and is in a good mood.
__________________
Painting: The art of protecting flat surfaces from the weather and exposing them to the critic.
Ambrose Bierce
Paint and Hammer is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Paint and Hammer For This Useful Post:
daArch (04-17-2011), NEPS.US (04-17-2011), RCP (04-17-2011)
Old 04-17-2011, 07:26 PM   #29
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 10
Rewards Points: 10
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
View tonytwotime's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Actually Tony by golly you've gotten some solid advice here
I agree. I never said I didn't, and thanked people for helping. Thanks again to everyone who provided useful information.
tonytwotime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2011, 07:30 PM   #30
"Member"
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New England
Posts: 10,719
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 5,401
Thanked 5,705 Times in 3,060 Posts
View NEPS.US's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonytwotime View Post
I agree. I never said I didn't, and thanked people for helping. Thanks again to everyone who provided useful information.
Your welcome!
NEPS.US is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2011, 07:32 PM   #31
Estimator/Instructor
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,004
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 145
Thanked 446 Times in 265 Posts
View Harry's Photo Album My Photos
Send a message via Skype™ to Harry
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonytwotime View Post
Schmoe? You don't even know me. I have all the required permits, for the town I'm working in. I paint when I come across jobs. I just asked for some estimate help. C'mon. Is there really a need to be a douche bag about it?

Thanks. I was wondering what people charged per square foot. I might just do that instead.
For crying out loud, I thought we excommunicated all the SF talkers already!

Listen tonytwo time, do NOT take anybody's advice when it comes to SF pricing, it's simply...WRONG.

Here's a little something I wrote years ago...please remember it, frame it if you need to...but DO try to understand it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Floor Area Square Foot prices – Busted

I wish I had a buck for the many times I’ve seen the question asked, “How much do you charge per square foot of floor area?” I’ve been asked this question personally and have seen it on numerous painter forums, for years.

Over and over again, I’d chime in that we don’t paint floors, therefore we don’t charge by the square foot floor area.

Let me point out the square foot question is almost always asked when dealing with projects in the residential sector and rarely asked of painting contractors in the commercial sector. Why? Because most commercial companies don’t believe in fairy tales.

To anyone who has bid to owners or General Contractors, the question is a common one. Unfortunately, the question has no connection to reality, whatsoever.

One sad thing about this pricing practice is that it too often becomes adopted by the smaller painter. The smaller painter is told that he can have the job if he can do it for “a buck a square foot”, floor area and what happens? The painter ends up taking on the job and wonders why he lost his shirt!

Even sadder is the fact that most painters out there have no clue what their costs are and too often assume that the GC does… and takes on losing projects based on that premise. Also, they use this so called “buck a square foot” as a magical number, as if it can be applied to all types of projects.

It just isn’t so and I’m going to prove it right now.

Numbers don't add up using the SF floor area method, period.

In the exercise below, we’re going to assume that sheetrock walls and ceilings (surface area) cost a painter .592 per square foot to paint.

Ok, so we have a 12 x 15 room that has 180 SF of ceiling and 432 SF of wall at 8' high. You'll do this for an average of $362.50. Divide the $362.50 by total wall and ceiling area of 612 SF and we get .592 per SF of sheetrock.
Floorarea price is $362.50 divided by 180 SF = $2.01 per SF floorarea.

You want to use SF
floorarea prices though, right?

Change the room size to 14 x 18

We now have a 14 x 18 room that has 252 SF of ceiling
area and 512 SF of wall at 8' high. Taking your price of .592 per SF of sheetrock and multiplying it by 764 SF (wall and ceiling area), we come up with a total of $452.29. If we divide $452.29 by 252 SF floorarea, we come up with $1.79 per SF floorarea.

Change the room size to 8 x 6

We now have a 8 x 6 room that has 48 sf of ceiling
area and 224 SF of wall at 8' high. Taking your price of .592 per SF of sheetrock and multiplying it by 272 sf (wall and ceiling area), we come up with a total of $161.02. If we divide $161.02 by 48 SF floorarea, we come up with $3.35 per SF floorarea.

Now take a good look at our rooms..

12 x 15 room = $2.01 PSF
floorarea.
14 x 18 room = $1.79 PSF
floorarea.
8 x 6 room = $3.35 PSF
floorarea.

Tell me what the relationship between
floorarea and a paint job is?

There is no relationship...and that is why we don't price PSF
floorarea.


Now...


Take the advice of the guys who are telling you the truth, either seriously or sarcastically...and don't get offended. Sometimes the truth hurts but in the end, I guess what matters is that we LEARN the truth.


The truth is that you cannot run a business by charging $20 an hour. You need to learn a few things about business to realize this perhaps.


I would be happy to help you a bit, just write me at [email protected] I'll help you get your numbers in order so that your first big job isn't your last.

If you prefer to go it alone, remember this...

Don't look at that job as 2,700 sf of job...look at it as so many rooms.
Start by taking one room and figure out how long it will take you and how much paint it will take also. You said that you are a painter so this shouldn't be too hard for one room, right?

Well, after you come up with a good price for that one room, do the same for all the rest of the rooms.

You've heard the old saying, "how do we eat an elephant? One bite at a time."?

Simply look at this job as a bunch of little jobs...

Good luck...
__________________
Just my opinion...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Harry; 04-17-2011 at 08:05 PM..
Harry is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Harry For This Useful Post:
DanielMDollaPainting (04-17-2011), Final Element (04-18-2011), JNLP (04-17-2011), ligboozer (04-17-2011), pacificpainters.com (08-05-2011), Paint and Hammer (04-17-2011), y.painting (04-17-2011)
Old 04-17-2011, 07:33 PM   #32
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 10
Rewards Points: 10
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
View tonytwotime's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Your welcome!
You supplied zero help, concerning the topic of the thread. I'm surprised they tolerate you here.
tonytwotime is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to tonytwotime For This Useful Post:
NEPS.US (04-17-2011)
Old 04-17-2011, 07:36 PM   #33
Senior Member
 
PatsPainting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 3,840
Rewards Points: 2,030
Thanks: 1,785
Thanked 2,924 Times in 1,541 Posts
View PatsPainting's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonytwotime View Post
You supplied zero help, concerning the topic of the thread. I'm surprised they tolerate you here.
me too, I have been scratching my head on this for quite sometime now.

Pat
__________________
Quote:
Have fun with it you clownshoe!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PatsPainting is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PatsPainting For This Useful Post:
NEPS.US (04-17-2011)
Old 04-17-2011, 07:39 PM   #34
RCP
Senior Member
 
RCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Southwestern Utah
Posts: 12,314
Rewards Points: 78
Thanks: 4,400
Thanked 4,803 Times in 3,011 Posts
View RCP's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonytwotime View Post
You supplied zero help, concerning the topic of the thread. I'm surprised they tolerate you here.
We do more than tolerate him, we love and adore him!


(most of us anyways)


I think you have your answers, and I am inclined to to close this thread before it gets ugly.
__________________
Chris

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
RCP is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to RCP For This Useful Post:
daArch (04-17-2011), JNLP (04-17-2011), NEPS.US (04-17-2011)
Old 04-17-2011, 07:42 PM   #35
"Member"
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New England
Posts: 10,719
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 5,401
Thanked 5,705 Times in 3,060 Posts
View NEPS.US's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonytwotime View Post
You supplied zero help, concerning the topic of the thread. I'm surprised they tolerate you here.

Thanks for the new Sig!
NEPS.US is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to NEPS.US For This Useful Post:
daArch (04-17-2011), Dunbar Painting (04-17-2011), JNLP (04-17-2011), Paint and Hammer (04-17-2011), PatsPainting (04-17-2011), RCP (04-17-2011)
Old 04-17-2011, 07:42 PM   #36
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 10
Rewards Points: 10
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
View tonytwotime's Photo Album My Photos
Default

You're right. I have everything I need. Thanks.
tonytwotime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2011, 07:43 PM   #37
Estimator/Instructor
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,004
Rewards Points: 500
Thanks: 145
Thanked 446 Times in 265 Posts
View Harry's Photo Album My Photos
Send a message via Skype™ to Harry
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCP View Post
We do more than tolerate him, we love and adore him!


(most of us anyways)


I think you have your answers, and I am inclined to to close this thread before it gets ugly.
Instead of closing ANOTHER thread, why don't you tell the guys to lay off a bit so that we can actually teach a few things. This isn't a club for know-it-alls, it's a bunch of forums that are SUPPOSED to be helpful.

Don't lose sight of why we're all here. I certainly am not here to watch a third world country war...plenty of that on TV.
__________________
Just my opinion...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Harry is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Harry For This Useful Post:
Different Strokes (04-17-2011), KLaw (04-17-2011)
Old 04-17-2011, 07:44 PM   #38
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 10
Rewards Points: 10
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
View tonytwotime's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Thanks for the new Sig!
Have fun with it you clownshoe!
tonytwotime is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to tonytwotime For This Useful Post:
NEPS.US (08-05-2011)
Old 04-17-2011, 07:44 PM   #39
"Member"
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New England
Posts: 10,719
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 5,401
Thanked 5,705 Times in 3,060 Posts
View NEPS.US's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonytwotime View Post
You supplied zero help, concerning the topic of the thread. I'm surprised they tolerate you here.
Actually Tony you may look back at this thread in 6 months and realize that my advice was the best you ever could of received. The truth hurts and hopefully you learn quickly before your broke.
NEPS.US is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to NEPS.US For This Useful Post:
JNLP (04-17-2011), Paint and Hammer (04-17-2011)
Old 04-17-2011, 07:47 PM   #40
"Member"
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New England
Posts: 10,719
Rewards Points: 2,000
Thanks: 5,401
Thanked 5,705 Times in 3,060 Posts
View NEPS.US's Photo Album My Photos
Default

Perhaps we can also help you to come up with a name for your company as well!
NEPS.US is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
None

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
estimate Dbo General Painting Discussion 35 01-24-2011 05:42 PM
What would you do with this estimate? salestrainer General Painting Discussion 19 04-24-2010 05:12 PM
Estimate gone Bad! HeadHoncho General Painting Discussion 8 09-17-2009 08:13 AM
Estimate Help cltaylor3174 General Painting Discussion 13 06-25-2009 04:48 PM
I need help with an estimate ProWallGuy Business, Marketing, and Sales 22 03-03-2009 07:27 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | ElectricianTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com