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Old 06-05-2008, 09:49 PM   #1
 
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Default Help please... Benny oil & humidity & exterior door

Help needed tonight please!

My current residential project has me painting a front door in Benny oil "Rusty Nail" - darkkkk tint. Its been humid the last day and will be for the next few days. I painted it out (the back of it and 1 side) 2 days ago... and it was still very tacky yesterday when I went back to apply second coat and first coat to bannister/railings on upstairs flight of steps ("cloud white" in oil) So I left it alone.

I originally tsp'd the door, and rinsed it, and didnt apply any primers as I recognize the door to be already in oil. So today update = bannister looks great but the door is peeling? I barely touched it with a sanding block to remove the lint and its coming off really easy!

Like I said - really humid. SO I call another company (not the supplier of the paint - the girl that answered there yesterday told me that since it MAY be exterior oil paint underneath - that the interior oil could be conflicting with the undercoat.... WTH?)

They suggest leaving it until it gets cooler & dryer and go from there. (plus the darker tint makes everything take 10x longer to dry - this true?)

The HO wants to move stuff in (already a bunch of stuff there now - argh) this w.e. Do I leave it until Monday? and just concentrate on long drying latex for tomorrow? She's offered me to take the day off as its going to be steaming in there (it literally was today)

Thanks!
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Old 06-05-2008, 09:55 PM   #2
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What is the door made of? Direct sunlight?
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:04 PM   #3
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Personally, if it has to be done NOW, this is what I'd do. Scrape off all of your oil coat. Wear rubber gloves, and use a brillo pad and lacquer thinner to get off the stubborn spots. Get it back down to the previous finish. dry it off, and wash it down with mineral spirits. Wipe it off good and put a fan on it to dry it out fast. Go take a 15 minute smoke break. (You don't have to smoke though ).

Come back in and sand thoroughly with 80 or 100 grit sandpaper. Tack it off. Apply a coat of fast dry oil primer, like Ben Moore's Fresh Start QD30. Put fan on it again. Go do an hour long lunch.

Come back, check to make sure its dry. Hopefully so. Give it a light sand with 220, and tack off again. Apply finish coat of acrylic or waterborne paint in the finish color. Put fan on door again.

If it drys fast enough to apply a second coat that day, then do it. If not, *tell the customer to keep the door ajar and the fan on it until the latest possible moment. Then return next morning and apply finish coat.

*I would have them do this no matter it came out, and whatever product you use. Especially if it is real humid out.
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:20 PM   #4
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PWG, may have the best solution for an immediate remediation, but I am still curious about the cause.

You said, "darkkkk tint". Please explain. Who tinted it? What base? How much colorant?

I have seem similar behavior when too much colorant is used. One of the propertiers of glycol (used as a vehicle for univesal colorant) is its ability to absorb moisture. This is one reason over tinted paints like to flash. (at least this is what I was told by chemists at Calif Products)

You also mention TSP and rinse. TSP is famous for leaving residue unless extreme care is taken to rinse and wipe.



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Last edited by daArch; 06-05-2008 at 10:22 PM..
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:24 PM   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEPS.US View Post
What is the door made of? Direct sunlight?

Door is wooden and not even close to being in direct sun - covered porch.
(this is the interior of the door that im doing - not the exterior)
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:27 PM   #6
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I have not tried it much, but maybe adding some Japan dryer to the paint may help also.
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:32 PM   #7
 
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You said, "darkkkk tint". Please explain. Who tinted it? What base? How much colorant

Well the local paint supply store, (HO purchased paint 2 weeks ago) Dark base, its semi-gloss and Ben Moore = not sure what line and how much colourant (didnt bring the can (gallon) home) Like the name implies - it is a dark rusty brown red colour. Ive been using the same colour but in latex thru out other parts of the house.

Also not sure why the HO bought a gallon for 1 side of door...

I did talk to the HO later today (after I gots paid - whohoo - weekly - nice!) and told her that Id likely not be touching the door until Monday - but Im afraid of the 2nd coat and what it might/not do...

Last edited by cadchick; 06-05-2008 at 10:34 PM..
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:32 PM   #8
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Which BM oil?
Yes, lots of tint can make them take even longer to dry
Days in fact
Rusty Nail must be a Canadian Color (BM has different colors for Canada)
I don't see it in my fan decks

If it was not dry...but kinda...it could fall off when touched like you say

I would suspect it wasn't rinsed enough, or was still wet...if it was glossy and you didn't sand that might do it too

Probably a combo
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:35 PM   #9
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Default Ah..posted at the same time

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadchick View Post
Dark base, its semi-gloss and Ben Moore = not sure what line and how much colourant (didnt bring the can (gallon) home)
It would be interesting to know

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadchick View Post
Also not sure why the HO bought a gallon for 1 side of door...
...another reason not to let the customers buy materials
I'm sure they had extra sundries too right?

Lol
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:37 PM   #10
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Something is preventing the top coat from drying to the old coat. Too many variables to even begin. Give it until monday and if it's still tacky strip it and use a quick dry primer with latex top coats. Not too sure why you used a deep base oil in the first place.
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanV View Post
I have not tried it much, but maybe adding some Japan dryer to the paint may help also.
JD works well but I think its too late. I only use it when spraying oils ...not brushing.
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:57 PM   #12
 
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Thanks guys -
ill see how things pan out tomorrow - could be eating this one - first time for everything i guess...
;p
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:22 AM   #13
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If it is semi-gloss it could be Dulamel and it takes forever and a day to dry. But I think the TSP is the culprit. At any rate take the PWGuy approach.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:27 AM   #14
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I agree, TSP is likely the culprit. It leaves a slick film even after repeated rinsing. I like Dirtex as it rinses clean without a film. That film can also softened oil paint. You can always add a little Acetone to speed up the evaporation of long oils if it is permitted in OTC/VOC compliant areas.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:56 AM   #15
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Curious...

Changing to a latex/waterborne paint was suggested twice here. Why not use an oil/alkyd? I also would go with PWG's suggestion but use an oil to finish. I have had better luck getting an oil to dry harder than the waterborne in humid weather. I would even use the same finish since you have a gallon and the paint does not seem to be the problem.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:45 PM   #16
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BTW, as noted TSP has known rinsing issues, and I am not sold that Dirtex rinses well either. Powders, in my experience, are prone to leave powdery film. Sudsy cleaners also are tough to rinse thoroughly (IMO)

I've never had problems with CLEAR ammonia, and it cuts through some pretty nasty oils and greases.

Acetone was mentioned - that is a known carcinogen. If you use it, wear gloves as it will permeate the skin into the blood stream.

Jap driers do work well for brushed oils. Hell, I've used it in home brewed linseed oil based glaze.



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Old 06-06-2008, 11:18 PM   #17
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i also suspect the tsp wasnt rinsed well,,,,,
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProWallGuy View Post
Go take a 15 minute smoke break. (You don't have to smoke though ).
Be careful on this one. I took a 15 minute smoke break while letting some stripper do its work on a door, and the home owner refused to let me back on the property being "all's I did was sit in my truck & smoke".
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