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Old 03-28-2009, 11:06 AM   #1
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Default Hiring Dilemma.

I've been talking here about hiring another guy and actually have decided to hire two. I want one guy to help out the two vets I have and another guy for powerwashing and to help the others as needed.

The problem is, there is a guy I know who is in his 60's and a heckuva good painter. He's turned his life around, but cant get a job mainly, as best as I can figure, because of his age. I know when I run my ad, he'll be applying. The thing is is that I want younger guys who can handle more of the physical stuff without killing themselves. Having a real "conscious" problem with how I'm going to handle this.

I know the guy is hurting, and have tried to think my way on how to help. I dont want him on the books and I have some reservations about feeding him some jobs because of ins. liability issues. Most of my business is referral based so there is no way I can keep my name out of it. If I used him on the ins. resto side, he'd still have to be on the books.

This really sucks...out of 3 of us in the company at present, I'm in my 50's and another guy just turned 60, hence the need for young blood. Any ideas on how to handle this without hurting the guy...or getting sued for age discrimination?
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Old 03-28-2009, 12:43 PM   #2
 
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I would be honest if he approaches you and tell him that you have too many chiefs right now so your looking for more indians. You can also mention that with the indians, you can pay less per hour. Also that its a business decision and that nothing is personal. I am also in my early 50's and have been self-employed for 23 years. I try to keep both young and experienced guys on the crews. A good mix helps everyone. Good luck.
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Old 03-28-2009, 06:34 PM   #3
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I knew an aging painting contractor several years ago that was in much the same position. The older guys that had built him a name 25 years ago were getting older and slower, technology changing etc. but he really wanted to give them income as well as something to do each day to feel productive and worthwhile.

What worked for him was to go around to hotels and motels in the area and explan the situation with them and he would get these guys projects painting doors at the hotels. I'm not sure what they would negotiate but it allowed these older guys the opportunity to work slowly, stay off ladders and keep it at a piecework level that benefited everyone involved.

I really respected this guy for making the effort to do something for the guys who had built up his business in the old days. I hope you can find some type of arrangements for the guys in your situation that isn't dragging your company down or putting it in jeopardy during tighter times.
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Old 03-28-2009, 07:14 PM   #4
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I think I'm going to have him go through my pumps and guns to have them ready for exteriors. I dont have the time, he knows how to do them, and I'd have to pay the local shop anyway. Actually it would just be busy work, but at least I'll feel like I did something.

I know I'm going to have to keep business business. So far all of your suggestions sound good. I'll probably figure something out.
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Old 03-29-2009, 02:44 AM   #5
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hotel doors is a good idea.

Along the same lines is how about finding some kind of re-occuring work that is very easy for you to bid, and doesn't have a lot of parameters.

Do REAL fair bids on them, to the point where you are increasing the probability of getting the work. Possibly if you feel comfortable saying so, maybe even tell the people you are giving the bid to that your normal bids aren't quite as low, but you are essentially breaking even on these jobs just to keep an old painter busy.

Let him bust that stuff out, and you will be close to breaking even.

Even if you just make a couple hundred bucks for your trouble for a weeks worth of his work, you would be keeping him busy.

Again the key would be some kind of projects where you wouldnt have to do any administrating, or material supply runs etc, or time that you have to put into it other than the bid.

Maybe even tell the guy that you are bidding jobs because you want to help him stay busy and that you are pretty much breaking even. This might help him to be accepting of whatever type of work you get, even if it's not "master painter" type work.

Any one else think of some type of work that fits this criteria? Hotel doors are agreat idea, I am drawing a blank.

Good luck, I appreciate your intentions on the matter.
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Old 03-29-2009, 09:17 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Craftsman View Post
Any one else think of some type of work that fits this criteria? Hotel doors are agreat idea, I am drawing a blank.

Good luck, I appreciate your intentions on the matter.
I am an apartment painter, so I can add my 2 cents for that venue.

Entry doors usually need to be painted before the exterior needs to be painted, as well as sign posts.

Some need building hallways (especially interior types) painted periodically.

I have one property that is having all the shutters painted. (over 800)

So just look around, and with apartment work, a lot of it us recurring, and perhaps you can add other properties under the same management.

Al
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Old 03-29-2009, 09:54 AM   #7
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I will not get into apt painting.....I will not get into apt painting.....I will not get into apt painting.......................
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Old 03-29-2009, 10:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
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I will not get into apt painting.....I will not get into apt painting.....I will not get into apt painting.......................
I lasted all of 4 months working for a company that did only apartment make ready paint jobs. 15 properties in all and it was a nightmare, the things I saw in some of the eviction/suicide units cannot be unseen.
My first day the boss laid out the proper way to sh*t 'n 'git and make him $. We did not use drops we did not mask, a rag around our hand wrapped around the doorknobs was "masking".
I'll tell you what, I learned how to cut in with a 395 rig.
Awesome.

Really weird work though, very boring and repetitive with little reward for the effort.
Especially when you return to a unit you just sprayed a few weeks back and it is trashed...again.


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Old 03-29-2009, 11:01 AM   #9
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I will not get into apt painting.....I will not get into apt painting.....I will not get into apt painting.......................
thats funny as hell
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Old 03-29-2009, 10:26 PM   #10
 
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How about small commercial, like strip malls or older office parks. I have a guy that does this in an office park here in town. The office park is an older off the highway type with nine buildings. Probably 75% of the units are empty and in need of paint and general spruce up. So far it has worked out well for both, I dont clear a whole lot but he has been busy for several months. Funny side note, he has also been able to take care of a few things at my house that I don't have the time or energy for!
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Old 03-29-2009, 11:44 PM   #11
 
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I'm trying to not come off badly but I would not tell this guy the truth. In this economy, you don't know who will do what for a little green. He truly could sue you for age discrimination. I would tell him the truth in a round-about way. Explain to him what you are looking for and have him apply just like everyone else will. Then suck it up and tell him that you found others who are qualified for the position and less expensive than the vets.
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