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Old 05-31-2012, 06:11 AM   #61
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She said "as usual, I would like the bid lower than that". And she asked if I was sure I included certain items on the interior. She seems willing to work with me but wondering when she'll tire of negotiations.

Told her I will have to check for lead. I won't be able to do it if I get positive on lead. Should I tell her lifetime on duration? Should I paint the back of slatted shutters to keep warranty? Should I tell her oil trim takes a little longer than latex(kind of). I actually tried to talk her out of the trim inside as most looks great and not in need of a new coat. Some door stops were shaved and this is what I assume caused her to want to paint. But she said she definitely wants the inside done.

Nice lady but the catch is getting messy now. Don't know what to do.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:21 AM   #62
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It's not worth doing if you have to go below your own limit. Keep that in mind if she's trying to get more out of you that you think is right.

If she thinks it's too much money, try to find portions of the project that seem "unnecessary", offer to do it for less by excluding those portions.

Make an effort, but that doesn't mean letting her call all the shots and run you over.

How much time and effort do you want to put into the negotiations? The size and scope of the job should help answer this question. If she's having a bunch of issues with a 600 job, well, that sounds like a red flag to me.

I'm not there so only you can figure what this is worth.
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:43 PM   #63
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What happened to T and M, Moe? A deuce a day? No negotiations to be had.
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:47 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by sincere painter View Post
She said "as usual, I would like the bid lower than that". And she asked if I was sure I included certain items on the interior. She seems willing to work with me but wondering when she'll tire of negotiations.

Told her I will have to check for lead. I won't be able to do it if I get positive on lead. Should I tell her lifetime on duration? Should I paint the back of slatted shutters to keep warranty? Should I tell her oil trim takes a little longer than latex(kind of). I actually tried to talk her out of the trim inside as most looks great and not in need of a new coat. Some door stops were shaved and this is what I assume caused her to want to paint. But she said she definitely wants the inside done.

Nice lady but the catch is getting messy now. Don't know what to do.
Even the nice, older, next door neighbor lady type can be a pretty shrewd negotiator. Don't let her work you down to a bargain basement price. Know what you need to have to do it right and stick to it.
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Old 06-03-2012, 02:05 PM   #65
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i carry 7 million just in gl. it's not because i'm such a "business running super genious" like many on here are, it's because that's just what i have to have. after over head, bills, taxes, losses, fuel, etc. big money jobs are really just an illusion. i would do 200 a day cash jobs for myself anyday. keep doing what you gotta do...
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Old 06-03-2012, 04:03 PM   #66
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i carry 7 million just in gl. it's not because i'm such a "business running super genious" like many on here are, it's because that's just what i have to have. after over head, bills, taxes, losses, fuel, etc. big money jobs are really just an illusion. i would do 200 a day cash jobs for myself anyday. keep doing what you gotta do...
Sounds good.

I totally get the point you are making and can appreciate it but the reality is 200 a day will only go so far. I am not the big shot business on here I carry a standard 2 mil policy but would not want to limit myself to 2 bills a day as it will prevent growth capital. Hard to buy new equipment, cover depreciation costs like that and cripples the size of work you will take on imo

Of course if you start out doing 200 day cash jobs and have plans to grow and become more of a solid business in the future than all is good. So I guess I am saying start there but don't end there. jmo
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Old 06-03-2012, 09:22 PM   #67
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Ha! Enlighten me. You know, I love how people count up their "write offs". Everyone acts like a "write off" is free money, .....well it's not. Has to be paid from somewhere. Guess where that is....right out of your $200/day.

Just as an example, my vehicle cost alone for just myself is about $700/month. Payment, insurance, and fuel. So that equates to $28/day if I work 25 days a month. OK, so someone can say.."he could have a vehicle paid for". Fine, its still going to need repairs throughout the year, and maintenance (which I didn't include in my number) Not to mention, it will eventually have to be replaced because nothing lasts forever.

You all supporters of this guy also don't take into account his having to procure more $200/day gigs. That's not free, or is it another "write off"? Lololololol. So yes, I stand by my assumption that he is flying under the radar, I'm not saying he is "illegal", just not running 100% on the up and up. Its impossible at that rate.
Plenty of painters in my area(not all) are around 28-32 bucks an hr. Most one man shows have a spouse with a good job that provides the benefits. As far as a vehicle costing 700$ a month. Yeah I get it. A business should pay for the vehicle, health care, retirement,etc. The fact is that every other jo blow out there working an 18$ an hr job has to pay for their vehicle too to get to work. Say a guy pays taxes 25% taxes on 25$ an hour. He brings home 18.75 an hr. I know plenty of subs in the construction field that are working for 25-30 an hr and getting a 1099. GC's don't want to pay much more than that. Most of my competition I see in SW are working out of a subaru. Where I live a painter only needs a vehicle, a 2 yr contractor registration costing 50$, and a liabilty policy costing 600$ a yr. I guess alot of guys figure it beats the heck out of giving your life away to a factory. At least they can make their own hours.
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Old 06-03-2012, 09:28 PM   #68
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Plenty of painters in my area(not all) are around 28-32 bucks an hr. Most one man shows have a spouse with a good job that provides the benefits. As far as a vehicle costing 700$ a month. Yeah I get it. A business should pay for the vehicle, health care, retirement,etc. The fact is that every other jo blow out there working an 18$ an hr job has to pay for their vehicle too to get to work. Say a guy pays taxes 25% taxes on 25$ an hour. He brings home 18.75 an hr. I know plenty of subs in the construction field that are working for 25-30 an hr and getting a 1099. GC's don't want to pay much more than that. Most of my competition I see in SW are working out of a subaru. Where I live a painter only needs a vehicle, a 2 yr contractor registration costing 50$, and a liabilty policy costing 600$ a yr. I guess alot of guys figure it beats the heck out of giving your life away to a factory. At least they can make their own hours.
Where i currently live you are supposed to have a minimum of 4 years expierence to qualify for a licence, all said and done your fees to obtain are about 800 bucks. doesnt include your insurance.


But alot of guys drive beat up ford rangers and pile up their hombres in the back with all their tools. They just skip right through all the legal stuff

Charge about 15 bucks an hour, eat burritos and fajitas at lunch and send the under the table cash back to the homeland.

You can get a crew chief homie fully loaded with truck and tools for 15 cash here. He thinks hes got it made

He'll supply the rest of his posse for 10/cash maybe even 8

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Old 06-03-2012, 09:40 PM   #69
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Where i currently live you are supposed to have a minimum of 4 years expierence to qualify for a licence, all said and done your fees to obtain are about 800 bucks. doesnt include your insurance.


But alot of guys drive beat up ford rangers and pile up their hombres in the back with all their tools. They just skip right through all the legal stuff

Charge about 15 bucks an hour, eat burritos and fajitas at lunch and send the under the table cash back to the homeland.

You can get a crew chief homie fully loaded with truck and tools for 15 cash here. He thinks hes got it made

He'll supply the rest of his posse for 10/cash maybe even 8
Not to derail the thread but that's about the strictest qualification standard I've ever heard of. I'm curious, how do they (city, county, state, other?) qualify "experience" and document it?
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Old 06-03-2012, 09:49 PM   #70
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Not to derail the thread but that's about the strictest qualification standard I've ever heard of. I'm curious, how do they (city, county, state, other?) qualify "experience" and document it?
Dan, that was exactly what i thought when i first started looking at the CA CSLB laws and regulations.

From my understanding, you are supposed to supply tax records, and previous employers information as reference. They want proof you worked for other licenced contractors. Or if you are comming from out of state with a business, they want to see your tax records and books. They apparently call all of your previous employers to verify. But ive talked to several who have BS'd it.

Im sure Pat, or Gabe know alot more about it than i do. Same with CApainter.
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Old 06-03-2012, 09:54 PM   #71
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Dan, that was exactly what i thought when i first started looking at the CA CSLB laws and regulations.

From my understanding, you are supposed to supply tax records, and previous employers information as reference. They want proof you worked for other licenced contractors. Or if you are comming from out of state with a business, they want to see your tax records and books. They apparently call all of your previous employers to verify. But ive talked to several who have BS'd it.

Im sure Pat, or Gabe know alot more about it than i do. Same with CApainter.
Thanks SC. Now that you've described it, it seems I have heard something about that before. Guess it creates work for someone at the state level.
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Old 06-03-2012, 09:56 PM   #72
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I'm just saying I have friends who make 18$ an hr(which is a good job and hard to come by anymore) and they pay taxes on that and stilll have to pay for their own transportation to get to work. At least a self-employed contractor can write off his mileage or gas and repairs. Most of the guys working for 25$ an hr don't need to spend money on advertising because of word of mouth and their rates they have all the work they want. Sure they don't pay for health insurance, have employees or an office or shop outside their home or they would be at 72.50 an hr.
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Old 06-03-2012, 09:56 PM   #73
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Thanks SC. Now that you've described it, it seems I have heard something about that before. Guess it creates work for someone at the state level.
Why else do we have regulations

Hopefully i dont get booted to the PZ
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