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Old 05-16-2009, 12:23 AM   #1
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Default I'm stumped... and so is my Paint Rep....

Check this out:

http://picasaweb.google.com/agapepai...SidingFrosted#


This home was painted last year (by me) in June. This year in April the HO noticed this white stuff on the siding. I call it a "frosted" look for the lack of anything better to name it. While there washing her cedar deck in prep for a second coat (maintenance), I decided to try and power wash this stuff off the house and that didn't work. Called the paint Rep; he's a sharp cookie and knows a lot about siding problems related or not to "paint" and he was stumped (admittedly so..). He's calling in the BIG Guns on this to see what might someone else know. In the meantime, the paint (left overs from the job) is going in for a testing.

The product is Duration Flat

Can any one here give some suggestions or have any idea what might have caused this?
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Old 05-16-2009, 12:52 AM   #2
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did it rain RIGHT after you painted?
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Old 05-16-2009, 01:10 AM   #3
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lol poor you so this is a flat sheen product? i think maybe that might have something to do with it generally i find exterior paint to be a bit shinier flat paints stain easy and absorb lots of crap but if its not flat then i dont know
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Old 05-16-2009, 01:22 AM   #4
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did it rain RIGHT after you painted?
nope
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Old 05-16-2009, 01:47 AM   #5
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wow. I am def not using duration flat. It is water man. staining from water. What kind of "things" are around the house? You guys have problems with salt from the ocean? Or are you too inland, or does Oregon not have that problem? Just throwing some stuff out there. I messed with it in photoshop.. it just looks like water sheeting and then drying leaving a stain behind of where it drained off the siding.
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Old 05-16-2009, 02:07 AM   #6
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I have never seen this before and I use Duration flat A LOT! Tigard is inland and an hour and half from the coast. But! it does seem to be a stain of some sort. I would suspect water too, but how? It may even seem like it comes from the underside of the siding... Most of the siding on the bottom side is sealed between the boards. Water is about the only thing that makes sense....
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Old 05-16-2009, 02:36 AM   #7
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Old 05-16-2009, 07:30 AM   #8
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Is it the same on sheltered areas and is it all around the building? If there's nothing underneath soffit boards/sheltered areas then it looks like weather damage because it wouldn't have hit the sheltered areas. If it's the same all around the buiding then I doubt if it's weather related as it wouldn't have hit all four sides (at least two sides would have probably been sheltered).

If it is all over and it didn't get hit by any weather related issues (frost/rain/fog etc) then I'd put a guess on chemical residue from pressure washing left/dried out on the siding before it was painted.
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Old 05-16-2009, 07:45 AM   #9
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this is what it looks like to me. http://www.paintquality.com/failures...r/frosting.htm
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Old 05-16-2009, 07:55 AM   #10
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Jason, what type of siding is this?
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Old 05-16-2009, 09:15 AM   #11
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That looks very similar to what we call down here in FL, a "Calcium Carbonite Burn". Most of the ultra flat finishes have so much calcium carbonite that when it mixes with the Glycol Ethyr colorants (most of the time in dark colors) this reaction happens because the carbonite wants to leach, causing a burn in the colorant and somehow can not get washed off.

Keep us updated, I am curious to see what this actually is!
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Old 05-16-2009, 09:43 AM   #12
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FL BM, Does the "Calcium Carbonite Burn" have any relationship to water or rain (be it acidic or base). But according to the link Nace posted, it has nothing to do with rain.



as Nathan said, I think it has to do with water. The pattern suggests that water running down the siding has something to do with it. I almost looks like rain had picked up chaulking from the white trim and then left chaulk deposits when the rain dried. I know you said the stains didn't wash off, but that's what the patterns LOOK like.



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Old 05-16-2009, 09:49 AM   #13
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OH, btw, the house was DRY when you took those pictures, right?

A friend of mine got a call that the paint "had washed off in the rain". the customer was also a customer of mine, so I knew she was a bit of an alarmist. Michael had just painted the house a darker brown over a lighter brown. A few weeks after we had some terrific wind blown rain. The lady saw a lighter brown and said Michael's paint had washed off.

He went and looked at the house. When the house had dried after the rain, it was back to the new color.

Just thought I'd throw that out.



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Old 05-16-2009, 10:31 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FL.BM.DEALER View Post
That looks very similar to what we call down here in FL, a "Calcium Carbonite Burn". Most of the ultra flat finishes have so much calcium carbonite that when it mixes with the Glycol Ethyr colorants (most of the time in dark colors) this reaction happens because the carbonite wants to leach, causing a burn in the colorant and somehow can not get washed off.

Keep us updated, I am curious to see what this actually is!
yes, what is called "frosting" I think. If it were a surfactant, it would manifest itself within a very short period of being applied and could be washed off within a 30 day period. This appears not to be topical, but part of and imbedded in the film. I concur it looks like a calcium carbonate burn, as it is uniformly going down the siding. If it were in my opinion chalk running down, the discoloration would get progressively worse as it built up on the bottom of the siding. It that a cementatious siding and not wood?
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Old 05-16-2009, 10:38 AM   #15
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Old 05-16-2009, 12:28 PM   #16
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I am not overly familiar with the technical side of Duration in particular, but many of these fast dry latexes actually cure pretty slow. Sometimes guys use them thinking they will be dry in two hours, which is true, but even in June or July you can have a temp drop between 4 pm and 8 am that will form a heavy dew on surfaces. Thats what this looks like. As others have said, the staining has too much vertical orientation to be anything other than moisture and it would be particularly noticable in this type of color. Another consideration is if you put any kind of extender in the product to make it more brushable, this could impact the finished look. I am leaning more toward the heavy dew theory.

Jason, you are having a bad run of luck on exteriors, I hope this turns around for you so you are not a full time warranty guy.



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Old 05-16-2009, 12:36 PM   #17
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Or...perhaps the homeowner decided to wash the windows or water the shrubs within the cure time of your final coat?



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Old 05-16-2009, 12:43 PM   #18
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OK... I just got my cup-o-joe and will now make the best attempt to answer all your question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TooledUp View Post
Is it the same on sheltered areas and is it all around the building?

If it is all over and it didn't get hit by any weather related issues (frost/rain/fog etc) then I'd put a guess on chemical residue from pressure washing left/dried out on the siding before it was painted.
Yes.

I don't typically use chems when pressure washing before painting. That is not an issue. And if I did, it wouldn't have time to dry out as I would follow up with the rinse before I moved to the next side of the house. I do this when I wash vinyl siding homes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHandyman View Post
Jason, what type of siding is this?
Cedar

Quote:
Originally Posted by daArch View Post
OH, btw, the house was DRY when you took those pictures, right?
Yes.

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Originally Posted by vermontpainter View Post
Jason, you are having a bad run of luck on exteriors, I hope this turns around for you so you are not a full time warranty guy.
I don't consider it bad luck. It's education. I don't mind being educated when something fails. It's part of the trade. I could understand your statement about the "warranty guy" if in fact I was the cause of this issue like the cedar gables, but that is clearly not the case here.
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Old 05-16-2009, 12:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vermontpainter View Post
Or...perhaps the homeowner decided to wash the windows or water the shrubs within the cure time of your final coat?
The bulk of those pictures were taken from the part of the house that is above her two garage doors. No shrubs to be watered...
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Old 05-16-2009, 12:52 PM   #20
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AS another note: I do not add anything to my paint (extenders, water... etc.)
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