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Old 03-17-2010, 06:21 PM   #1
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Default Man o' War Business Model for RRP

I've never seen one of those Man o' War jellyfish things but I remember from biology that they were actually 4 (I think) separate organisms for digestion, motion, reproduction, etc.

This specialization occurs in the trades too. A rough carpenter does not build cabinets...he leaves that to a fine carpenter. I am a paperhanger and I try to send painters paint jobs and they are happy to send me wallpaper jobs. There is a symbiosis there.

Maybe with this new RRP Lead thing, a new business model would be for multiple actors to complete different sections of jobs. For instance a lead certified painter would do the dirty work/lead dust creation part of the job. Since many painters don't want the liability of the lead dust creation portion of a job that would make the "Dusty Painter" a painter in high demand and able to charge much more than the "Finish Painter." When you go on an estimate in target housing you refer your friend the dusty painter and then you walk in after everything is certified lead safe.

The Finish Painter and the Paperhanger or Faux Finisher would be freed up to do their thing without worrying about lead jobs, certification and 3 year documentation. They would not own sandpaper. The Dusty Painter would be the one to carry that burden and get (probably) more money than anybody else in this Man O' Painting organism.

BTW, if such a trend were to arise I put dibs on the reproductive portion of the beast

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Old 03-17-2010, 06:32 PM   #2
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You certanly are thinking outside the box...no pun intended...I think?
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Old 03-17-2010, 06:35 PM   #3
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thinking outside the spray booth
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Old 03-17-2010, 08:02 PM   #4
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I would rather just keep all the work for my self. If there is something I dont know how to do I look it up on line than practice in my own house. I have already painted our bedroom three different times in the past two years. Custom stripe, Faux finish, clouds on the ceiling, my wife is getting kind of fed up with it all, but hey got to practice somewhere.
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Old 03-17-2010, 08:50 PM   #5
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but its for the safety of the children,,,
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Old 03-17-2010, 09:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by high fibre View Post
but its for the safety of the children,,,
yep, its all about the children, I have been stalking up on coloring books, Going to get me a few clown outfits for me and the guys to wear, maybe we will invest in one of the blow up bounce rooms to set up on the job for the children to play in while we are working. It's all about the children now...

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Old 03-17-2010, 09:04 PM   #7
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are you legally able to wear a clown suit after that last fiasco?
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Old 03-17-2010, 09:36 PM   #8
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Jim, that sounds like a sensible idea, but I think RRP makes that difficult.
State rules may vary, but if lead is detected, either it has to referred to an abatement company, or all trades have to be certified.

If you don't test, you have to assume lead for all trades.

Wouldn't the "finish painter" still need to be certified to test? I don't think he could go in based on another firms swab results.

The only way a home can be cleared is by an Lead Inspection with the XRF.
CLR's cannot do that test.

I think companies that can go in, do the demo and clear the home will be in demand, but they will have to have the Abatement/Inspection License.

That is the way I read it, but I may be wrong!
I read a discussion by some GCs on this topic, I will see if I can find it.
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Old 03-17-2010, 10:46 PM   #9
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I asked my instructor straight out- is painting with no repair fall under the rule- and he said no. I would have to think this also true of hanging.

I also asked if I went on a job, did the repair ala rule, and then swiffered it and said done, could I continue straight painting without containment- answer- yes.

That sounds somewhat practical, as apposed to fanatical. But who knows- its not about keeping the children safe...
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:09 AM   #10
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Quote:
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I asked my instructor straight out- is painting with no repair fall under the rule- and he said no. I would have to think this also true of hanging.

I also asked if I went on a job, did the repair ala rule, and then swiffered it and said done, could I continue straight painting without containment- answer- yes.

That sounds somewhat practical, as apposed to fanatical. But who knows- its not about keeping the children safe...

Man, if it is all that cut and dried,I might be able to stay in business. You trust this guy?
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:13 AM   #11
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if this was really about keeping children safe>>>>>>

they would offer this information on containment and safe practices for FREE

its funny how they want you to PAY FOR INFORMATION TO HELP KIDS.
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Old 03-18-2010, 08:28 AM   #12
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Quote:
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Wouldn't the "finish painter" still need to be certified to test? I don't think he could go in based on another firms swab results.
I think there is confusion caused by the title of the RRP Law i.e. Renovation, Repair and Painting. You don't have to comply with the law because you are a painter or do painting. It is not the brushing of paint or rollering that is making you a candidate....it is the fact that painters MAY (and mostly) DO disturb more than 6 sf of paint that may contain lead in target housing. Take the disturbing of ANY existing paint out of the equation and you are exempt.

So even if the "Dust Creating" firm that came before you was in error about the existence of lead, that error is on them and IMO has nothing to do with you if you don't disturb the 6 sf of paint per room since you would be a separate (not subbed) company. Again the Finish Painter arrives after the scene has been certified "cleaned-up" by the previous contractor. The Finish Painter uses his own dropcloths and all his "lead free" tools. He does not own sandpaper. The job is prepped, spackled, JCed, and sanded. The Finish Painter only APPLIES paint. The Dusty Painting firm documents the place for lead, sets up the hazmat scene, washes down the place for dirt, scrapes loose paint, patches, sands and does everything every normal painter does before any paint can is opened. Then they clean up and leave.

Is this stupid and unwieldy? Of course it is. It is what happens to any efficient, low cost system once the federal government gets involved. What's in it for the Dusty Painter? A very high rate of payment for services due to the risk and overhead....such a service may command $2000--$3000 or more per day...who knows?


This scenario is very much like the scenario when I arrive at a job that the 6 or so painters I hang for are finished.
I don't sub
for these 6 great painters here in NJ and NY, we all insist on the client cutting a separate check for the paperhanging services. I am referred not subbed. I would suggest the same arrangement for a Dusty Painter/Finish Painter relationship.

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Old 03-18-2010, 07:30 PM   #13
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i like it.

i havnt disturbed surfaces for several years.
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