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Old 05-10-2019, 11:13 PM   #21
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The "mom and pop" store locally carries oil-based solid and semi-solid stain for decks, as well as sikkens, and a number of Zinser products that SW does not carry.* They are also willing to order almost anything at request.

*Sherwin Williams is destroying decks in their push for water-based deck stains.
(I believe there is a class action lawsuit filed against SW Deckscapes currently in courts)
Is there a threat of these products becoming unavailable if the Ma and Pa's sink under the weight of the big boxes, and conglomerates?
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Old 05-11-2019, 09:45 AM   #22
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Is there a threat of these products becoming unavailable if the Ma and Pa's sink under the weight of the big boxes, and conglomerates?
very much so! The major paint companies (SW and PPG primarily) are not willing to invest in lo voc oil based technologies because of their belief that it is already too small of a market niche. Only the smaller paint manufacturers (California for example, of course! And specialist stain companies such as Armstrong and Clark) are willing to put the effort into oil/alkyd products, which basically means only the independent paint retailers will have their products. It will get much worse, to the point where it will be nearly impossible for most consumers to source voc compliant oil/alkyd based stains. But due to the massive marketing efforts of SW, Behr, PPG and the like, a vast majority of consumers will never be aware of the superiority of alkyd stains, which will further hasten their disappearance. It will start to snowball in a few years the way things are going. Very few independent paint retailers will survive the next 5 years orso.
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Old 05-23-2019, 05:19 AM   #23
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very much so! The major paint companies (SW and PPG primarily) are not willing to invest in lo voc oil based technologies because of their belief that it is already too small of a market niche. Only the smaller paint manufacturers (California for example, of course! And specialist stain companies such as Armstrong and Clark) are willing to put the effort into oil/alkyd products, which basically means only the independent paint retailers will have their products. It will get much worse, to the point where it will be nearly impossible for most consumers to source voc compliant oil/alkyd based stains. But due to the massive marketing efforts of SW, Behr, PPG and the like, a vast majority of consumers will never be aware of the superiority of alkyd stains, which will further hasten their disappearance. It will start to snowball in a few years the way things are going. Very few independent paint retailers will survive the next 5 years orso.
As much as I'd like to believe California Paints is the paint messiah, I actually found California Ultra to be a step down from the old Muralo Ultra. Adhesion was worse, little less white, flow out was a little worse. Even the guy at my paint store agreed with me. Muralo Ultra hands down was the best paint I ever used, and Cali killing the Muralo brand really made me unhappy. I do think reformulating for lower VOCs was part of it, but they did drop the volume solids 1-2% iirc when I looked at both data sheets. To me Ultra was just the best trim paint ever made, just completely totally absolutely gorgeous. I even for fun tested it on preprimed trim and it actually leveled off better than oil based Rustoleum, both in gloss.

To me now, I now basically have the attitude that all paint companies suck. To me Muralo seemed to be the only company where quality really was top priority. And they paid the price by... not being in business. I guess they could have advertised better, but still. I wish I bought some of their porch and floor paint before they left. The one store near me with a full Muralo line that also fully closed (high commercial real estate costs :/ ) had the Muralo Porch and Floor paint on their table they'd hammer paint cans on, it was rock hard and they told me they had it on 4-5 years hammering paint cans on it every day. Their sample piece of painted crown moulding in Ultra that sold me on it with by touching was painted 10 years before and looked and felt new, they said they just washed it occasionally. My local BM store's Advance sample piece looks laughably bad by comparison (Advance is still good, though.)

So anyway, I find now I can get "almost as good" out of all the manufacturers in some way but just nothing can match it completely. Maybe I should stop caring and just use Super Paint on everything. :/ :/

For decks, admittedly I don't really know or have a lot of exterior experience, but so far I've seen decent results out of Flood solid stains. Price is definitely cheap and cheerful from PPG on them as well. I've seen 2-3 years out of homeowner applied with really minimal chipping and peeling in New England.

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Old 05-23-2019, 08:47 AM   #24
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As much as I'd like to believe California Paints is the paint messiah, I actually found California Ultra to be a step down from the old Muralo Ultra. Adhesion was worse, little less white, flow out was a little worse. Even the guy at my paint store agreed with me. Muralo Ultra hands down was the best paint I ever used, and Cali killing the Muralo brand really made me unhappy. I do think reformulating for lower VOCs was part of it, but they did drop the volume solids 1-2% iirc when I looked at both data sheets. To me Ultra was just the best trim paint ever made, just completely totally absolutely gorgeous. I even for fun tested it on preprimed trim and it actually leveled off better than oil based Rustoleum, both in gloss.

To me now, I now basically have the attitude that all paint companies suck. To me Muralo seemed to be the only company where quality really was top priority. And they paid the price by... not being in business. I guess they could have advertised better, but still. I wish I bought some of their porch and floor paint before they left. The one store near me with a full Muralo line that also fully closed (high commercial real estate costs :/ ) had the Muralo Porch and Floor paint on their table they'd hammer paint cans on, it was rock hard and they told me they had it on 4-5 years hammering paint cans on it every day. Their sample piece of painted crown moulding in Ultra that sold me on it with by touching was painted 10 years before and looked and felt new, they said they just washed it occasionally. My local BM store's Advance sample piece looks laughably bad by comparison (Advance is still good, though.)

So anyway, I find now I can get "almost as good" out of all the manufacturers in some way but just nothing can match it completely. Maybe I should stop caring and just use Super Paint on everything. :/ :/

For decks, admittedly I don't really know or have a lot of exterior experience, but so far I've seen decent results out of Flood solid stains. Price is definitely cheap and cheerful from PPG on them as well. I've seen 2-3 years out of homeowner applied with really minimal chipping and peeling in New England.
California paint didn't do anything. They kept the Muralo line as it was for several years. It was the company that bought Cali, ICP, that made the label changes. Any belief that the Cali Ultra is not as good as the Muralo Ultra is BS. The former Muralo dealers are and have been dead set against California from the get go. It wouldn't have ever been a problem if they could have sold enough Muralo in the first place would it? It's the same product. The Muralo dealers just hate the idea that Muralo isn't on the label anymore. A 1-2% volume solids drop is nothing. It could just be an adjustment on paper it is such a small amount. I have new, unopened Muralo Ultra if anyone would like to do an actual side by side comparison of the two. Not using one on one substrate and the other the next day on something else. Side by each at the same time on the same substrate in the same atmospheric conditions using the same applicators is the only way you can compare the two. I can do that whenever anyone wants to.
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