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Old 07-11-2011, 11:27 PM   #21
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It is always the customers version of covered that counts, they are the ones that must be happy. If you bid two coats and the old color shows thru arent you going to make them happy and apply another coat? I simply propose to "cover" so as to avoid arguments over how many coats are on the surface. I always inspect my work before I present it as finished to my customers. You only need one bad reference to hurt your reputation in a small town. This is what I have "learned".

I take your word for it and that makes you a minority. As an experienced painter you generally know when something needs two or three coats right? Why not specify and give a more accurate quote? That way you don't screw the client OR yourself. Just my opinion.
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Old 07-12-2011, 04:40 PM   #22
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Thanks Gibberish, As you know there are many variables as to how paint will cover previously painted walls. The same paint might cover well in one room that had flat paint on the walls, and not so well in another that had semi-gloss. Also customers have been known to change their minds on color mid-job. While you are right I generally know,how many coats each wall will take- and I use this to determine my price,It could get a little confusing to break down each surface that might be different. I prefer to just reassure the customer that all the paint I will apply will be to "cover "to provide the true color and sheen as they would expect. Most likely I was referred to them by a previous customer,and they have seen my work. Anyone can say anything on a bid, but the truth is on the wall.
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:11 PM   #23
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Scott65 -
I respect your choice to do it that way. It isn't how I bid but that doesn't make it wrong. It's what works best for you and your clients that's important. If there was a problem with it then you'd have changed how you do it by now.
I only bid labor on my jobs. What ever the paint and primer costs are is added to the labor cost at the end of the job. Not too many guys do it that way but it's always worked well for me and my customers and that's all that counts.
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:26 PM   #24
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Thanks Researchhound, What is important is that you care about the quality of work you provide your customers. A hack painter will always find a way to cheat people- and will not last very long. The fact that your proposal states how many coats you will apply is certainly a good thing, but the fact that you actually do apply two coats is what matters most.
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Old 07-12-2011, 11:02 PM   #25
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I give a number of coats. Almost always 2. If it's a same color repaint (normally for commercial) i'll bid it as 1 coat and a 2nd as needed to provide for proper coverage.
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Old 07-12-2011, 11:16 PM   #26
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A hack painter will always find a way to cheat people-
And a professional will do the right thing even if it hurts his checkbook. I'm not going to start bidding to coverage but you certainly convinced me that you don't do it to rip people off.


Speaking of this I ate almost $500 last week because I forgot to explain that deep base colors cost more and we had already begun work


*sigh* At least I'll remember that painful lesson next time.


inB4 "$500 is 30 seconds in MY company"
It's a lot to me
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Old 07-12-2011, 11:33 PM   #27
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I see both points here .But i'll say this. The more detailed you can be with your bid the better. Quoting a number of coats leaves nothing to question. Telling someone that the job will cost said amount, and that you'll paint it till it's covered allows too much room for interpretation in my opinion. I've gotten in trouble a couple times in the past because I wasn't clear, or detailed enough in my bids. JMO

Tell them exactly what your going to give them, and then give it to them.
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:08 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by gibberish45 View Post
and a professional will do the right thing even if it hurts his checkbook. I'm not going to start bidding to coverage but you certainly convinced me that you don't do it to rip people off.


Speaking of this i ate almost $500 last week because i forgot to explain that deep base colors cost more and we had already begun work


*sigh* at least i'll remember that painful lesson next time.


Inb4 "$500 is 30 seconds in my company"
it's a lot to me
Ouch!
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:17 AM   #29
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Ouch!
I know..... I sure didn't expect them to put deep browns, greens and purples next to each other. I've never finished a job and thought it was uglier than before I started until this one.
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:08 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott65 View Post
It is always the customers version of covered that counts, they are the ones that must be happy. If you bid two coats and the old color shows thru arent you going to make them happy and apply another coat? I simply propose to "cover" so as to avoid arguments over how many coats are on the surface. I always inspect my work before I present it as finished to my customers. You only need one bad reference to hurt your reputation in a small town. This is what I have "learned".
i disagree only w/ that part of your post; the rest is how i work also.

ie: i'm the pro, so its my version(vision), that matters.

now before you disagree... haven't u ever had your customer say, "oh that looks good" (good enough), - and you can see it isn't?
I have; and I will make it good enough for me. ie: more prep, another coat, etc.

25yrs - my own company= I never finished and had my customer say it didn't look good (or great).
(if so, that's a PITA cust. who will never be happy. )

if you're trying to 'get away w/ it', that's a diff. story. (and a diff. company.)

i was always in it for the 'long haul', for a happy cust., and excellent referrals.
my brother & I had a goal of making the HO say "OH!, OH!" (come in their pants)

am I bragging? NO. i think, if we are the pros - that's how we work; and that is going to keep the profession, trade, & painter- respected! (and make us more $ )

rick
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:22 AM   #31
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I know..... I sure didn't expect them to put deep browns, greens and purples next to each other. I've never finished a job and thought it was uglier than before I started until this one.
Well, at least it sounds like it wasn't boring. Unlike the multiple barely off white colors (pink, blue, green, yellow) I had to do in an already white house last year. You couldn't even see the differences between them. I kept falling asleep and then off my ladder.
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:32 AM   #32
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PS - to the original question...

if its my job, my estimate, my quote... ie: my specs...

i always said (wrote)-

" prepare - ('surface'-walls, trim, siding... whatever).
prime where needed.
paint - ('surface')"

my thought was - if you give a firm price for 2 coats...
what if it ends up needing more?
I'm not gonna ask for more $$$ at that point. that would be saying i didn't price it correct to begin with.

of course, that's for residential work. (commercial, industrial, is a diff. ball game)

rick
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:45 AM   #33
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I just use two coat brushes and rollers.
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Primer makes everything better...
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:10 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjensen ptg View Post
PS - to the original question...

if its my job, my estimate, my quote... ie: my specs...

i always said (wrote)-

" prepare - ('surface'-walls, trim, siding... whatever).
prime where needed.
paint - ('surface')"

my thought was - if you give a firm price for 2 coats...
what if it ends up needing more?
I'm not gonna ask for more $$$ at that point. that would be saying i didn't price it correct to begin with.

of course, that's for residential work. (commercial, industrial, is a diff. ball game)

rick
It could always happen but I've never had to put a third coat on when I didn't already anticipate the potential for needing it. For example, when red is involved I always give a third coat price just in case - and it often is.
There have been a few times where I bid at two coats and then one ended up being sufficient for coverage and protection. I then discussed it with the HO and if we agreed to stay with just one I reduced my price accordingly. Never had a customer complain when it cost them less... go figure.
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:02 PM   #35
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I just use two coat brushes and rollers.
That's two coats right? One up, One down
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