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Old 04-15-2019, 10:37 AM   #1
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So we all have our go to paints for our own personal reasons, but what are paints you'll never use again or not recommend?



Also when I go to Sherwin-Williams the color consistency through batches has always been pretty close. I usually mix all my paint together, but sometimes you come up short and need more. Hirshfeild's though...I got a 5 and two 1s. They were all pretty damn different.
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:43 AM   #2
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In this day and age, you should not have to worry about color consistancy. Thats a crappy paint store if you're batches are ever off. As much as I hate Sherwin, I've USUALLY never had a problem with their batches being off, except one five of untinted ultra-white that was way off, that they refused to take responsibility for, and accused me of mixing another color in...

So yeah, I hate Sherwin. I think Sherwin is the only REAL paint store people have problems with. I've never seen 'hate' for BM or PPG or Kelly Moore, but a lot of painters really hate Sherwin.
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:44 AM   #3
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dang i knew i should have grabbed some of that free popcorn at the game last night to take home! I could use it right now!
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:45 AM   #4
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In this day and age, you should not have to worry about color consistancy. Thats a crappy paint store if you're batches are ever off. As much as I hate Sherwin, I've USUALLY never had a problem with their batches being off, except one five of untinted ultra-white that was way off, that they refused to take responsibility for, and accused me of mixing another color in...

So yeah, I hate Sherwin. I think Sherwin is the only REAL paint store people have problems with. I've never seen 'hate' for BM or PPG or Kelly Moore, but a lot of painters really hate Sherwin.


Not enough of them or SW would make an attempt to do something about it.
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:09 AM   #5
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Not enough of them or SW would make an attempt to do something about it.
They do. They ADVERTISE. No need to fix the problems, when you can just lure more people in.

That, and a lot of people just think "Thats the way paint is."

Back in the day "Eggshell doesnt ever touch up, you need to repaint the whole wall."

Now I know better. SHERWIN'S eggshell will never touch up. A lot of other paints touch up just fine.

A lot of people are in the habit of taking a weenie roller when cutting in ceiling lines so they dont get hatbanding, or color differences between brush and roller. Well, thats primarily a Sherwin thing as well.

A lot of people simply dont realize that these problems practically dissapear with better paint stores.

"I've never had a problem with Sherwin. I just makes sure I box all the paint together, and use a weenie roller on the ceilings and always reroll walls that need touch up."

Thats like: "I dont have a problem with Taco Bell. I just make sure to keep an extra pair of underwear with me and my toilet paper stocked up."
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:35 PM   #6
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They solved the issue by having more stores than everyone else. A lot of people are willing to put up with some bs if it saves them time.


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Old 04-15-2019, 01:09 PM   #7
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They do. They ADVERTISE. No need to fix the problems, when you can just lure more people in.

That, and a lot of people just think "Thats the way paint is."

Back in the day "Eggshell doesnt ever touch up, you need to repaint the whole wall."

Now I know better. SHERWIN'S eggshell will never touch up. A lot of other paints touch up just fine.

A lot of people are in the habit of taking a weenie roller when cutting in ceiling lines so they dont get hatbanding, or color differences between brush and roller. Well, thats primarily a Sherwin thing as well.

A lot of people simply dont realize that these problems practically dissapear with better paint stores.

"I've never had a problem with Sherwin. I just makes sure I box all the paint together, and use a weenie roller on the ceilings and always reroll walls that need touch up."

Thats like: "I dont have a problem with Taco Bell. I just make sure to keep an extra pair of underwear with me and my toilet paper stocked up."
Hat banding has been an issue with SW for as long as i can remember. Even the marketing people knew about it. They've still not done a thing about it because they have so many painters hypnotized to the point that they can't even see the obvious.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:16 PM   #8
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They solved the issue by having more stores than everyone else. A lot of people are willing to put up with some bs if it saves them time.


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As i determined several years ago with a post on PT convenience is the number one reason people will buy paint at a particular store over another. Not service. Not product quality. In fact those two aren't even in the top five reasons people buy from a particular store, although they are the top two complaints according to a nationwide industry report. Painters think they are saving soooo much money because of the convenience of there being an SW store in every town that they are completely clueless as to how much labor they lose making the SW paints work properly. I have a local painter who thinks nothing of having to buy 30-40% more paint on a project just for touch-up because he basically feels he has to buy from SW. He hasn't a clue how much money he is wasting when it takes his painters and extra day or two to finish a job because of all the "touch-up" work the SW creates for them.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:14 PM   #9
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Hat banding has been an issue with SW for as long as i can remember. Even the marketing people knew about it. They've still not done a thing about it because they have so many painters hypnotized to the point that they can't even see the obvious.
i think they add some extra to the paint fumes to compensate for that issue... hat banding... what hat banding? that paint sure smells good though
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Old 04-15-2019, 04:03 PM   #10
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i think they add some extra to the paint fumes to compensate for that issue... hat banding... what hat banding? that paint sure smells good though
The hat banding you will get when you use an SW product on a wall. Not necessarily right after application but soon. Wait for it.
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Old 04-15-2019, 04:46 PM   #11
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So, back to the OP question. I hate Ace paint especially the Royal line. I am considering adding 10% onto labor costs for anyone insisting on using Behr. This is to account for dealing with all of the dragging when I cut in, and fixing drips and sags.


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Old 04-15-2019, 04:50 PM   #12
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As i determined several years ago with a post on PT convenience is the number one reason people will buy paint at a particular store over another. Not service. Not product quality. In fact those two aren't even in the top five reasons people buy from a particular store, although they are the top two complaints according to a nationwide industry report. Painters think they are saving soooo much money because of the convenience of there being an SW store in every town that they are completely clueless as to how much labor they lose making the SW paints work properly. I have a local painter who thinks nothing of having to buy 30-40% more paint on a project just for touch-up because he basically feels he has to buy from SW. He hasn't a clue how much money he is wasting when it takes his painters and extra day or two to finish a job because of all the "touch-up" work the SW creates for them.
I had a conversation with one of the clerks at my BM store. He was telling me that one of the local painters could not grasp that he really was not saving much money, if any, when he sends 2 guys up to the SW store, which is a good 20 minutes away (if not more) to pick up paint.

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Old 04-15-2019, 06:00 PM   #13
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What I want to use depends on what Iím doing. For most walls and ceilings I will use Millerís (a northwest region company based out of Portland) Acro-Pure. Itís a low VOC paint, mid-price ranged, low odor, fairly durable. If I need something a little tougher, and some odor isnít an issue, I typically use Duration.

For trim/door work which will be brushed and rolled, my go to is ProClassic. I have had very good success with getting it to lay down almost as if sprayed.

If spraying enamels, it will vary between KMís Dua-Poxi (sold through Miller here), SW Pro Industrial Multi Surface, or Pro-Classsic.

We recently got a BM dealer here in town. And although Aura is certainly a nice paint, just not sure itís really worth the prohibitive price tag. Especially since almost all jobs I do are bid at two coats.

As for the dealers themselves and customer service, I am fortunate to have access to great personnel all around (though I really barely know the BM people yet - but like what Iíve seen). Perhaps the one knock I have against my Miller store is their tendency (at least in this store) to sometimes run out of a product. It just recently happened to me: bought two gallons, used them up and then had the job expand on me so went back to get some more and they were out, with no plans to be getting more in. It was a mid-range tint base, in eggshell sheen - not some odd, rarely used product. I just canít have that happen and no paint distributor should be letting it occur.

Iíve never had anything like that happen at my SW store. In fact, I have nothing but good things to say about the staff there and how it is run. Maybe I am just lucky in having top notch people at the levels of area rep, manager, and assistant manager. Heck, even the regular staff is very good. But apparently, mine must be the only decent SW store in the nation - at least so I would be led to believe by some here on PT.
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Old 04-15-2019, 06:30 PM   #14
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What I want to use depends on what Iím doing. For most walls and ceilings I will use Millerís (a northwest region company based out of Portland) Acro-Pure. Itís a low VOC paint, mid-price ranged, low odor, fairly durable. If I need something a little tougher, and some odor isnít an issue, I typically use Duration.

For trim/door work which will be brushed and rolled, my go to is ProClassic. I have had very good success with getting it to lay down almost as if sprayed.

If spraying enamels, it will vary between KMís Dua-Poxi (sold through Miller here), SW Pro Industrial Multi Surface, or Pro-Classsic.

We recently got a BM dealer here in town. And although Aura is certainly a nice paint, just not sure itís really worth the prohibitive price tag. Especially since almost all jobs I do are bid at two coats.

As for the dealers themselves and customer service, I am fortunate to have access to great personnel all around (though I really barely know the BM people yet - but like what Iíve seen). Perhaps the one knock I have against my Miller store is their tendency (at least in this store) to sometimes run out of a product. It just recently happened to me: bought two gallons, used them up and then had the job expand on me so went back to get some more and they were out, with no plans to be getting more in. It was a mid-range tint base, in eggshell sheen - not some odd, rarely used product. I just canít have that happen and no paint distributor should be letting it occur.

Iíve never had anything like that happen at my SW store. In fact, I have nothing but good things to say about the staff there and how it is run. Maybe I am just lucky in having top notch people at the levels of area rep, manager, and assistant manager. Heck, even the regular staff is very good. But apparently, mine must be the only decent SW store in the nation - at least so I would be led to believe by some here on PT.
The big advantage the company owned stores (PPG and SW) have is their unlimited stocking levels at the stores. They can stock quite a bit more inventory than a store that HAS TO PAY FOR WHAT THEY STOCK! It can be a real bitch believe me. I can't afford to keep a slow moving product sitting around like they can AND i can't send it back if i need to. BUT if a customer needs something right away i am quite willing and able to go to the Cali dealer in Akron or pay to have something expedited from the Cali warehouse. Unfortunately there are times when that doesn't work. It does take a little more communication with the store sometimes to make sure they have what you need. BUT you are correct that unless that product you needed was being discontinued they should have at least had a plan to restock it.
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Old 04-15-2019, 06:52 PM   #15
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The big advantage the company owned stores (PPG and SW) have is their unlimited stocking levels at the stores. They can stock quite a bit more inventory than a store that HAS TO PAY FOR WHAT THEY STOCK! It can be a real bitch believe me. I can't afford to keep a slow moving product sitting around like they can AND i can't send it back if i need to. BUT if a customer needs something right away I am quite willing and able to go to the Cali dealer in Akron or pay to have something expedited from the Cali warehouse. Unfortunately there are times when that doesn't work. It does take a little more communication with the store sometimes to make sure they have what you need. BUT you are correct that unless that product you needed was being discontinued they should have at least had a plan to restock it.
This is a company owned store - they all are now. Miller has something like sixty locations throughout the NW. And again, if it had been some obscure orvrarely in demand product I was using, then I would have been certain that there was enough on hand just in case. This isn’t The first time something like this has happened, but in the past they were able to get more in from the next closest store, or special order it in on the next shipment. But, that incident isn’t enough to keep me from buying there, especially most of my sundries, but it did piss me off more than a little.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:00 PM   #16
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So we all have our go to paints for our own personal reasons, but what are paints you'll never use again or not recommend?



Also when I go to Sherwin-Williams the color consistency through batches has always been pretty close. I usually mix all my paint together, but sometimes you come up short and need more. Hirshfeild's though...I got a 5 and two 1s. They were all pretty damn different.

I hate using Snap Dry.
I have a commercial account where I spray a lot of trim and doors inside the house, (about three times a year) and they insist on using Snap Dry. I have burned out one HVLP unit already, and have constant problems with clogging every single time (yeah, and don't try to brush with the stuff).
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:18 PM   #17
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So we all have our go to paints for our own personal reasons, but what are paints you'll never use again or not recommend?



Also when I go to Sherwin-Williams the color consistency through batches has always been pretty close. I usually mix all my paint together, but sometimes you come up short and need more. Hirshfeild's though...I got a 5 and two 1s. They were all pretty damn different.
I used BM Ultra Spec on a condo's ceilings and walls. The ceiling was not bad because it is a ceiling, but the walls seemed to attract dings and blemishes just by looking at them, to the point that several walls had to be rerolled and some rerolled twice.

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Old 04-15-2019, 11:14 PM   #18
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"I’ve never had anything like that happen at my SW store. In fact, I have nothing but good things to say about the staff there and how it is run. Maybe I am just lucky in having top notch people at the levels of area rep, manager, and assistant manager. Heck, even the regular staff is very good. But apparently, mine must be the only decent SW store in the nation - at least so I would be led to believe by some here on PT." @RH

I, too, am lucky enough to have an SW "training store" nearby which has outstanding customer service. Today, with one of the big 40% sales occurring, there were a dozen people in the store and I was number 12. They rolled through the 11 ahead of me in mere minutes and I got out of there within 10 minutes. I know that is EXTREMELY rare for SW. I don't take it for granted.

I, too, like ProClassic and have always used SuperPaint with no problems, not even the hat-banding issue which seems to be commonplace with SW paints. It could be that, after all these years, I've just figured out how to use their paint or I've just lucked out.

I don't like ACE paint either @Pete Martin the Painter. The Royal, even after months of drying, can be rubbed right off of a wall. I mean, the colorant actually comes off leaving a bare spot. No other paint I've ever used has done that. And, Behr, awforgetaboutit.
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:20 PM   #19
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I got a 5 and two 1s. They were all pretty damn different.
You have to keep your eye on their formulas. I found this out the hard way when the formula for the 1 was completely different than for the 5, as in not even all the same colorants. This was an SW color.
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Old 04-16-2019, 12:51 AM   #20
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"Iíve never had anything like that happen at my SW store. In fact, I have nothing but good things to say about the staff there and how it is run. Maybe I am just lucky in having top notch people at the levels of area rep, manager, and assistant manager. Heck, even the regular staff is very good. But apparently, mine must be the only decent SW store in the nation - at least so I would be led to believe by some here on PT." @RH

I, too, am lucky enough to have an SW "training store" nearby which has outstanding customer service. Today, with one of the big 40% sales occurring, there were a dozen people in the store and I was number 12. They rolled through the 11 ahead of me in mere minutes and I got out of there within 10 minutes. I know that is EXTREMELY rare for SW. I don't take it for granted.

I, too, like ProClassic and have always used SuperPaint with no problems, not even the hat-banding issue which seems to be commonplace with SW paints. It could be that, after all these years, I've just figured out how to use their paint or I've just lucked out.

I don't like ACE paint either @Pete Martin the Painter. The Royal, even after months of drying, can be rubbed right off of a wall. I mean, the colorant actually comes off leaving a bare spot. No other paint I've ever used has done that. And, Behr, awforgetaboutit.
I didnít even consider commenting on Ace, Glidden, Behr, Olympic, etc, or any other numerous minor paint brands which exist out there. Around here itís pretty much the three I covered. Well, we have Rhoda in the next town over but Iím not a fan of that either.
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