Paint company forgot to send me some bills for 18 months now they want me to pay them - Page 3 - Paint Talk - Professional Painting Contractors Forum
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Old 07-18-2015, 10:47 AM   #41
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@daArch they've produced invoices so far. I told them to return with the original store copy with electronic signature and we'll proceed from there.
@I paint paint I also don't want lawyers involved. I imagine this company has some decent ones on retainer.

Bottom line I want them to understand I'm hooped recovering most of these costs from clients. For that reason I'm expecting a good faith gesture from them
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Old 07-18-2015, 12:38 PM   #42
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How the hell can you run a company and not know what you spent on materials on each job. That's how you figure out your net income isn't it?

I don't care how many employees you have. I have never walked out of a paint store without a copy of the receipt. I have never let my employees walk out of a paint store without a receipt. Each employee had a 5 x 8 brown envelope that receipts went into with the job name on the envelope. End of the job or end of the week that receipt was on my desk.

Between some sloppy habits of the store/company and what seems to be your own sloppy habits, it seems to have all come full circle. You owe, you pay.

How do you correctly bill a T&M job without knowing what you spent on it?
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Old 07-18-2015, 12:46 PM   #43
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I have to echo Wolf's sentiments. You said you employ a bookkeeper for your company. I think your first order of business should be to replace her/him. This should never have happened if they were doing their job.

As for the supplier's side of it, yeah, at the very least they should offer up a gesture of good will in hopes of recovering some of their loss. On the jobs that were T&M they should just write it off since you can't be expected to go back to your customers or for you to pony up the cash. On the rest, they should factor out the materials in question at cost and structure an interest free repayment schedule. After all, you did come out significantly better off on the non-T&M jobs as a result of their error.

I also have to wonder how many other contractors have been similarly affected.
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Old 07-18-2015, 12:52 PM   #44
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If the paint company refused to give him paper copies (and he said they did) how can he be to blame for not having copies? All the info he has to go on is what they send him in the email, and if they didn't email him the invoices it's neither his fault nor his book keeper's. If you were running an operation that size, would you expect each employee to memorize exactly what they'd bought for the job with no available paper copy? Because that's the only way he'd have to know.

Edit: Clearly he figured T&M on the invoices he actually did get (it's not like he wasn't getting any at all)... again, paint store refused to give him paper copies, how else would he have to know?

Just my 2c as a store employee who thinks stores should be responsible for their mistakes.

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Old 07-18-2015, 01:04 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrakeB View Post
If the paint company refused to give him paper copies (and he said they did) how can he be to blame for not having copies? All the info he has to go on is what they send him in the email, and if they didn't email him the invoices it's neither his fault nor his book keeper's. If you were running an operation that size, would you expect each employee to memorize exactly what they'd bought for the job with no available paper copy? Because that's the only way he'd have to know.
No, but I know I couldn't (and wouldn't) run my business without invoices (hard copies or emails) and if I wasn't getting them I would be into the store pronto to rectify the situation. If they wouldn't give me what I needed I would have taken my business elsewhere within a short period of time rather than operate in the dark for fourteen months. As has already been mentioned, there is blame that can be placed on both sides IMO.
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Old 07-18-2015, 01:26 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by RH View Post
No, but I know I couldn't (and wouldn't) run my business without invoices (hard copies or emails) and if I wasn't getting them I would be in their pronto to rectify the situation. If they wouldn't give me what I needed I would have taken my business elsewhere within a short period of time rather than operate in the dark for fourteen months. As has already been mentioned, there is blame that can be placed on both sides IMO.
That's fair enough. I wouldn't do business without invoices myself... but then again, close to 75% of my contractors are now paperless, so I dunno.

Edit: Wait, are you thinking they didn't get any invoices at all? That's not what he said I don't think; I'm pretty sure he was getting invoices emailed, but just some of them randomly weren't coming because the paint company forgot to bill him. It's not like he was running his business with no idea what he was spending except the statements.

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Old 07-18-2015, 02:12 PM   #47
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Isn't it the responsibility of the consumer to keep track of their purchases? It be like me recklessly charging up my credit card without keeping track of my account balance, then suddenly get hit with a huge charge I ignored because the vendor didn't process it for over a month.
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Old 07-18-2015, 03:02 PM   #48
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Default No Paper = Deal Breaker

That's how I see it. Heck, I have enough trouble, being 'clerically impaired" and all.

My process is very simple ... I collect the paper as the job progresses, then settle up right after I get paid. In addition, each invoice is assigned to a job at the time of sale.

Yes, sometimes this throws them a curve ball, when I show up to pay a bill they haven't issued yet. Too bad.

My primary supplier also e-mails me a copy of the invoice the day of sale. That way, even if my helper forgets to give me the paper, I have a heads-up that very day.

A supply house that kept me in the dark would become a FORMER supplier right then. Your story is exactly why I feel that way.
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Old 07-19-2015, 12:42 AM   #49
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@CApainter everything was fine until they stopped giving a paper receipt at POS. at that point I had no way to track purchases except rely solely on the weekly emails. I paid ALL the invoices they sent. Now they want me to pay the ones they didn't send.
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Old 07-19-2015, 02:05 AM   #50
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I know you run a bigger operation than I do, but I can't understand how you were able to bill out your T&M jobs for 14 months without getting the, "M" info. I'd think you, your bookkeeper, or someone would've raised an eyebrow or two when you're tallying up materials for these jobs and 20k's worth was missing. After all, were not talking about them not billing you for a scraper or a case of caulk. Again, I'm only speculating because I've never worked near the scale as you. Unfortunate for sure though.
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Old 07-19-2015, 02:29 AM   #51
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@CApainter everything was fine until they stopped giving a paper receipt at POS. at that point I had no way to track purchases except rely solely on the weekly emails. I paid ALL the invoices they sent. Now they want me to pay the ones they didn't send.
Care to share the company? There have been 2 big buyouts in Canada and I haven't had any issues with Dulux, they still give me a receipt every time. Actually since PPG took over the Tetris got bigger.
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Old 07-19-2015, 05:04 AM   #52
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I would negotiate a monthly payment plan with the paint company so you can pay them back in instalments. .
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Old 07-19-2015, 08:17 AM   #53
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It sounds like a number of businesses in this story need to review their systems. Sounds like a perfect storm where many folks coulda and shoulda showed a little more "due diligence".

I'd LOVE to see this go to court and see the judge roll his eyes as each side presents their facts.



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Old 07-19-2015, 09:27 AM   #54
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You bought it, you pay for it. It's that simple.

Good Faith? By all means, they should work with you to spread this out over time. Perhaps offer to make a weekly payment equal to the sales tax you pay for other stuff that week.

Collecting from your customers? Might not be a lost cause. Most of us have 'regular' customers, and it's a cinch to add their old materials to new jobs. The other customers will pay as well, since this bill is now part of your 'overhead.'

Considering the number of contractors who go broke, once you have paid you ought to be able to get the supplier to give you better terms. After all, you've proven yourself to them!
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Old 07-19-2015, 09:48 AM   #55
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Another consideration for you., don't pay them and run away down here to Australia and start again with a clean slate.
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Old 07-19-2015, 10:01 AM   #56
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I know you run a bigger operation than I do, but I can't understand how you were able to bill out your T&M jobs for 14 months without getting the, "M" info. I'd think you, your bookkeeper, or someone would've raised an eyebrow or two when you're tallying up materials for these jobs and 20k's worth was missing. After all, were not talking about them not billing you for a scraper or a case of caulk. Again, I'm only speculating because I've never worked near the scale as you. Unfortunate for sure though.
Stelzer makes a good point. The material costs could be extrapolated from the customer invoices processed during the critical time frame.
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Old 07-19-2015, 10:21 AM   #57
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I know how difficult it can be to keep track of purchases. Probably 75% of all invoices from vendors are sent to me via email. Every month, I have to identify each invoice with a job code. I then have to input that information into an electronic data base along with a hard copy submittal to our purchasing department. Any submittal that does not include an itemization, is red flagged and I get a call.

Many times, I have had vendors sit on a purchase without processing it. This can totally screw up my monthly budget when they suddenly decide to charge my account. And since many purchases are done by phone or computer, there will typically not be an invoice until the transaction is processed.

So bottom line, I have to review my balance regularly to keep track of all transactions so I know that I have the credit available to make purchases, without having a vendor reject my card because I unknowingly exhausted my funds for that month.
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Old 07-19-2015, 12:58 PM   #58
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I'd make em a small offer, your a big company & surely they don't want to loose your business.
One of our paint suppliers did not bill us for last month but I had all invoices, called them to verify it was 12 grand & only discrepancy was a charge to my account by someone that does not work for us. Cleared that real quick.
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Old 07-19-2015, 02:19 PM   #59
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I'd make em a small offer, your a big company & surely they don't want to loose your business.
One of our paint suppliers did not bill us for last month but I had all invoices, called them to verify it was 12 grand & only discrepancy was a charge to my account by someone that does not work for us. Cleared that real quick.
Definitely a good reason to keep close tabs on your purchases through invoices. Another, and perhaps even more likely one; doing so to make sure your own employees aren't charging something to your company that they are using on side jobs they may be doing.
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Old 07-19-2015, 04:19 PM   #60
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If they say you owe X amount for the products, then guessing 50% is their actual cost on the product. I would compromise for that amount and both parties share the blame. They are only losing profit and your letting them keep your business , which they will make profit in future. That is how I would handle it.
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