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Old 07-18-2011, 02:38 AM   #1
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Default Painting & Decorating Education

You may have seen some of my post before and you probably have picked up that I am in vocational education of painting & decorating.

My name is Michael Farrugia my site Pacificpainters.com is just a way of sharing things with my students without being shackled to a government training organisation.

I work for the Australian government on the APTC project as part of an AID project. I train in the vocational area of painting & decorating to a certificate III qualification.

I know that in the US you have the PDCA in Australia we have the MPA.
  • What are your thoughts on training?
  • Do we have it right in Oz?
  • What arrangements do you have for training?
  • What are some critical things that should be included in training?

Here is details of the Australian qualification, it takes around three to four years to become qualified to this certificate level. Many states require this qualification in order to start your own business. People migrating to Australia as a painter and decorator need this qualification to gain residency.
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Old 07-18-2011, 09:21 AM   #2
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I only briefly looked at the sites for now, but my impression is that MPA is similar to our PDCA, not compulsory, but beneficial to many.

Quote:
Here is details of the Australian qualification, it takes around three to four years to become qualified to this certificate level. Many states require this qualification in order to start your own business. People migrating to Australia as a painter and decorator need this qualification to gain residency.
Are their painters that work without it with no repercussion? I see that entry requires "Year 10"?
So at first glance it appears to me that it is more of an advanced training than a requirement to work in the trade?
In the US, some states require similar experience and education to become licensed, some states require nothing, and enforcement varies, so many feel that the license system is worthless.
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Old 07-18-2011, 11:09 AM   #3
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In Oregon you have to take 16 hours of course work and pass the state required test to be a contractor. Exam covers general business practices, contract law, safety, EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) rules and regulations, etc.. Nothing about specific (framing, painting, dry walling, etc.) trade practices. Plumbing and electrical do have trade specific training, courses, and exams.
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Old 07-18-2011, 11:24 AM   #4
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Are you required to do continuing education as well? In my state you have to pass a trade specific and law.

Here is a site that shows the different requirements for different states.
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Old 07-18-2011, 11:27 AM   #5
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The only actual training that you get in the US is from jobcorps, vocational school, or union apprenticeship/journeyman upgrade classes. The union apprenticeship classes were a joke, the upgrade classes are the same thing every year, jobcorps is a bunch of kids that get paid to get away from their parents, so if you have students that have an actual interest in the trade....
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Old 07-18-2011, 12:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCP View Post
Are you required to do continuing education as well? In my state you have to pass a trade specific and law.

Here is a site that shows the different requirements for different states.
If you're addressing me the answer is yes. Just instigated it this year and becomes mandatory for those renewing their licenses after a certain date. You have the two year licensing period to obtain another 16 hours (I renewed last April and have until April 2013). Some of the 8 hrs. of required courses have nothing that pertains to what I do. Trying to make it a one size fits all while trying to justify the program. I figure that with time lost from work, travel, and course costs I'll be out over $3000. At a time when the industry is hurting enough as it is this just adds to the burden.
Licensing enforcement here is fairly rigorous and the fines are steep. The CCB regularly conducts sting operations to snare unlicensed contractors.
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Old 07-18-2011, 12:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by researchhound View Post
If you're addressing me the answer is yes. Just instigated it this year and becomes mandatory for those renewing their licenses after a certain date. You have the two year licensing period to obtain another 16 hours (I renewed last April and have until April 2013). Some of the 8 hrs. of required courses have nothing that pertains to what I do. Trying to make it a one size fits all while trying to justify the program. I figure that with time lost from work, travel, and course costs I'll be out over $3000. At a time when the industry is hurting enough as it is this just adds to the burden.
Yes, I was, thanks. I hope you see an improvement on the class selection. The classes my state offers are usually beneficial. Most are offered during a builders conferences and the costs are minimal, might want to check with your local builders association. I'll get mine in one day for less than $200. RRP also counts.
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Old 07-18-2011, 01:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacificpainters.com View Post
You may have seen some of my post before and you probably have picked up that I am in vocational education of painting & decorating.

My name is Michael Farrugia my site Pacificpainters.com is just a way of sharing things with my students without being shackled to a government training organisation.

I work for the Australian government on the APTC project as part of an AID project. I train in the vocational area of painting & decorating to a certificate III qualification.

I know that in the US you have the PDCA in Australia we have the MPA.
  • What are your thoughts on training?
  • Do we have it right in Oz?
  • What arrangements do you have for training?
  • What are some critical things that should be included in training?
Here is details of the Australian qualification, it takes around three to four years to become qualified to this certificate level. Many states require this qualification in order to start your own business. People migrating to Australia as a painter and decorator need this qualification to gain residency.

Mike,

SSPC( Society for Protective Coatings) is a national organization that is recognized internationally for it's surface preparation standards. Their PCCP( Painting Contractors Certification Program) qualifiies contractors for critical coating projects in the protective coating industry including industrial, marine, and DOD.

Do industrial painting contractors in Australia generally subscribe to SSPC and or NACE?

Thanks,

CApainter
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Old 07-18-2011, 02:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCP View Post
Yes, I was, thanks. I hope you see an improvement on the class selection. The classes my state offers are usually beneficial. Most are offered during a builders conferences and the costs are minimal, might want to check with your local builders association. I'll get mine in one day for less than $200. RRP also counts.
The "core' (required) classes for continuing education by Oregon's CCB are:
3 hours in Building exterior Shell training (BEST) - this isn't much good to
someone like me who only does interior painting.
2 hours in Building Codes or Green/Sustainable Building Practices
3 hours in CCB Business law and Practices
The other 8 hours can be in elective courses approved by the CCB for CE.

I mentioned to the lady at the CCB that the required course "BEST" is pretty much a waste of my time and money and she agreed and said that they'd gotten a lot of similar complaints from contractors in the same situation.
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Old 07-18-2011, 02:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCP View Post
I only briefly looked at the sites for now, but my impression is that MPA is similar to our PDCA, not compulsory, but beneficial to many.
The MPA are an employer association but are not the institutional arrangement for vocational education. The apprenticeship system is a government funded education system that ensures that school leavers (year 10 here is a 15 year old) are given an opportunity to gain skills in trades.

The employers are provided incentives to indenture apprentices and the award rate is very low for a first year apprentice.

It is not mandatory to have the qualification but why would someone pay a top labour rate to train you and get no incentives from the government. So employers are always looking for new apprentices and they usually don't see any benefit employing unskilled labour so you will need the qualification to ensure employment.

It is not just painters but all trades, because we have such a system people like myself find full time employment as teachers of our trade. People who have a trade qualification are given an opportunity to take pride in the trade and become a skilled educated person without going to university.

Personally I think it works, of course I am biased, if we did not have this system I would probably still be on the tools.
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Old 07-18-2011, 03:03 PM   #11
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Ongoing professional development is encouraged and associations like the MPA are always offering course on subjects like lead and asbestos and other companies like Greenpainters offer environmental course.

These are often required for licensing like you have in the US such as lead etc. sometimes government organisation will require specific certification in order to tender for a contract.
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